Thanks for the clarification.
A Glossary of Translation Terms
Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by John of Japan, Oct 21, 2012.
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Most portions of the Bible throughout the centuries (at least in English)were paraphrases. And those valuable portions were precious to the readers as the Word of God.
Have you ever read paraphrases of portions of the New Testament by F.F. Bruce and Donald W. Burdick? Their "paraphrases" were exceptionally well done and not liberal in the least. -
I still think that most Bible translations,even the ones such as the ESV which purport to be literal actually adhere to the NIV's presentation of what translation is about.
"Because thought patterns and syntax differ from language to language,faithful communication of the meaning of the writers of the Bible demands frequent modifications in sentence structure and constant regard for the contextual meanings of word." -
Yes,the NASBU is on the literal side and The Message is on an entirely different wave-length -- unduly free. However the majority of tanslations do not lie at the extremes. Most do not fit either category.
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I'm going to give one more definition of methodology, then maybe go on to other types of terms.
"An essentially literal translation translates the meaning of every word in the original language, understood correctly in its context, into its nearest English equivalent, and attempts to express the result with ordinary English word order and style, as far as that is possible without distorting the meaning of the original. Sometimes such a translation is also called a 'word-for-word' translation, which is fine if we understand that at times one word in the original may be translated accurately by two or more words in English, and sometimes two or more words in the original can be represented by one word in English. The main point is that essentially literal translations attempt to represent the meaning of every word in the original in some way or other in the resulting translation" (Wayne Grudem, "Are Only Some Words of Scripture Breathed Out by God?" in Translating Truth, p. 20). -
However if every word usage in the NT is studied as a group , then by the process of elimination, the smallest pallet possible could be determined. Another method is to assume the human author probably used a word in the same way, rather than use the word to mean opposite things. So when John uses the word translated world, it means fallen mankind or the corrupt system of fallen mankind. So which is the actual word meaning, God so loved the world or God so loved fallen mankind?
Until we use a systematic methodology, we will continue to have divergent translations that obliterate God's intended message. Without actual concordance the actual message will be masked in an avalanche of English words. -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Not to put too fine a point on it, but we who are born again children of God are ambassadors of Christ. We all have a measure of faith, meaning a sphere of ministry within the body. I know this is a difficult concept for you, because you see yourself as someone special and set apart from the likes of me, rather than someone who is actually trying to help make disciples of all nations.
God's intended New Testament message is being masked by the current English translations due to a lack of effort at using as few as possible of English words to translate the various meanings of Greek words. And the practice of translating different Greek words into the same English word clearly obliterates the distinction in the original. -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
As for comparing myself to you, I don't do that. I don't see myself as special. I do see you as commenting authoritatively quite often on things you haven't studied and don't understand. I'm sure you're quite knowledgeable in areas you are qualified in, but I don't know what those areas are, and I don't know anything more about you.
As for me not being "someone who is actually trying to help make disciples of all nations," I've been an evangelistic, church-planting missionary to Japan for 31 years, have preached the Gospel in several other countries, and have preached making "disciples of all nations" to hundreds of American churches over the years on deputation and furlough. Do these things count? :saint: -
God's intended New Testament message is being masked by the current English translations due to a lack of effort at using as few as possible of English words to translate the various meanings of Greek words. And the practice of translating different Greek words into the same English word clearly obliterates the distinction in the original.
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"But as for you,the Holy Spirit whom Christ has pourded out upon you is continually dwelling within you,and you have no need for anyone to give you new or advanced instruction beyond that which you have already received under the Spirit's influence. But on the contrary,as you are continually being taught concerning these things by the Spirit that Christ has poured out upon you --and He is altogether true -- and even as Christ Himself taught during His earthly ministry,keep on living in intimate relationship with Him."
And here is his paraphrase of 1 John :5,6 :
"These false prophets,on the one hand,have their origin in,and derive their characteristics from,the wicked pagan world. As a result,what they have to say comes from that pagan world,and so the people of the world are always ready to listen sympathetically to them. On the other hand,we of the apostolic circle derive our being and message from God. Consequently,anyone who knows God personally listens sympathetically to us. This is how we can recognize the Spirit who is characterized by truth and the spirit who is characterized by deceit." -
That portion of Grudem's quote is something that just is not possible. Every word in the original cannot possibly be translated. Right? -
Free translation goes beyond paraphrase. Eugene Peterson's The Message would be an example of really free. J.B. Phillip's work was a free translation.
If I am wrong that they are the same but the nuance of the term is different, tell me why I am wrong. "Horsefeathers" doesn't teach me a thing.[/QUOTE] -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
As with all paraphrases, these are full of Burdick's interpretation. But I'll not go into detail since that is not the purpose of the thread. -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Words that are difficult to translate into English from Greek include the particle an, and the definite article into languages which have no definite article like Chinese and Japanese. Sometimes if the article carries an important nuance the latter is possible using a word in the target language meaning "unique," but usually the definite article remains untranslated.
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