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A History of US Gun Rights

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by Agent47, Aug 5, 2019.

  1. Rolfe

    Rolfe Well-Known Member
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    Curious. Did anyone else who watched the OP video think for a moment that it was a comedy based on the opening music?
     
  2. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Rev. I am not trying to be a jack ass. The point I am making is the AR-15 is already banned. It has been banned since 1986.
    For the record Rev, any semi automatic can be made fully automatic with the same "minor changes" you mention being made to the "AR-15". For the record, THEY AINT SO MINOR.
     
  3. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Yea I know and the AR 15's are AR 15's.:rolleyes: I said nothing about fully auto being banned. Not sure where that came from. And....yes you are.
     
  4. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Terminology is important. I am sure your DI.I. would call a semi automatic ”AR-15" your daddy's hunting rifle. Kind of like calling your magazine a clip.
     
  5. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    When I talk about things I am not often so precise. I just don't think it is often necessary. Those who live by it are often seen as being intentionally difficult. There is nothing I have said that is incorrect. It may not be as precise as you prefer (personal preferences) but that doesn't make what I have said incorrect.
     
  6. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    A lot of what you said is not correct. Your reference to caliber being the most blatant example. "Easy" modification being another. Calling the semi clones floating around AR-15, also being in error.
    Here, just as in your Calvinist debates, you do not like facts.
     
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  7. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    No its not
     
  8. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Yes it is.
    458 SOCOM and 6.8SPCII say you are.
    The conversion to full auto being "easy" is laughable on so many levels.
     
  9. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Maybe we should get rid of Dems since Dayton & El Paso are controlled by Dems.
     
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  10. MartyF

    MartyF Active Member

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    When one mentions an AR-15, they usually mean AR-15 style, stylized as the AR-15 which was modified to removed select fire by Colt in 1964.

    Even then, I guess that's not specific enough. The 1964 AR-15 civilian Colt model (Which was called the AR-15 by Colt who owned the trademark "AR-15") actually does not have interchangeable parts which modern "-15" rifles. Not sure exactly which years don't fit, but the actual difference is small.

    Add on to this that the AR-15-style rifle nowadays tend to use the Wylde chamber which adds ammunition selectability which the original 1959 "AR-15" and the 1964 "AR-15" did not have.

    But for the most part, when someone so when someone says "AR-15", they mean the modern AR-15 style which generally has interchangeable parts with each other. No one ever means the prototype 1959 AR-15 models of which very few remaining exist. Even so, few would be foolish enough to regularly use such a collector's item especially since there were many faults with the weapon which had to be worked out over time.

    That being said, there was no reason to ban the manufacture and import of select-fire weapons. If one is dealing with unarmed civilians, single shot is the quickest, easiest, and most efficient method of killing with an M-16. Select fire is only useful in providing cover fire and fighting other well-armed soldiers.

    Select-fire weapons were not banned. The manufacture and import of such weapons were banned.

    In the end, arguing over semantics about the terminology is a red herring which does nothing to advance the conversation. A better argument would be to point out that in comparison to pistols, rifles are almost never used to murder people in the U.S. An even better argument is to point out that Agent47 and his ilk are only going to be satisfied when no one but the government is allowed to own any weapon of any type.
     
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  11. Agent47

    Agent47 Member
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    Why was their import and manufacture banned other than to restrict civilians from accessing them which is the whole point of banning them?
     
  12. MartyF

    MartyF Active Member

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    Civilians are allowed to have and use select-fire weapons in the same manner that they are allowed to use suppressors and short barrel rifles. Basically, one needs to pay a tax and get a local law enforcement officer to sign it. Many civilians own and use select-fire weapons including high caliber machine guns.

    Here's an explanation of the process. It's for suppressors, but basically the same process for a select-fire weapon.

    How to Buy a Suppressor

    Basically, it's the same thing as a "national gun registry" which is why no one wants a "national gun registry" who understands and doesn't want to smash people's rights. The process is particularly onerous and basically restricts ownership to rich people like the Las Vegas shooter.
     
    #72 MartyF, Aug 11, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
  13. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    We need national reciprocity. I do not want to go to states that do not recognize an Indiana permit. It's just not safe because of widespread drug addiction coupled with mental illness, not to mention thousands of criminal illegal aliens.
     
  14. Agent47

    Agent47 Member
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    You said select fire weapons manufacture and import is banned. I asked WHY do you think this is the case? Try and answer that
     
  15. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Good point! It is illogical!
     
  16. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Select fire ownership is not the same as suppressor and SBR, SBS. Though the paperwork process is basically the same, suppressor, SBR, and SBS are still legal for manufacture for civilian market. Civilian market manufacture of automatic weapons is illegal, this the availability is virtually non existent unless you have $15,000 laying around to drop on an AK-47.
     
  17. davidtaylorjr

    davidtaylorjr Well-Known Member

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    None of what you said makes it the ultimate killing machine. You really need to get educated on the topic before you go spouting off liberal left-wing talking point trash that has no basis in reality.
     
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  18. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Let's assume for discussion sake that the black rifles you call Ar- 15 are actually such even though they aren't. The AR is nothing but a semi automatic rifle. Thanks to Obama, the price of them has gone down but they still are not cheap. I can think of several platforms that offer extreme advantage over the Ar in the close quarters that most mass shootings occur in. I will not name them because I do not want to give any potential nut case lurking any ideas simply for the sake of feeding a troll.
     
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  19. MartyF

    MartyF Active Member

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    If you go to the PRC, New York, New Jersey, or similar communist state, you can apply for a conceal carry license. However, unless one is an important member of government, have donated the appropriate amount of money to the right campaign, or support the right causes with your speech you will never get one. The limitations on concealed carry is to prevent “deplorables” from obtaining a conceal permit and defend themselves.

    The same is the case with the weapons manufacture and import ban. The idea was to prevent people who were not politically connected with the right people from being able to have the weapon. This is why until recently, the head law enforcement officer in your area had to sign off on it.
     
  20. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    AR15s account for less than 3% of shootings. Everyone uses a pistol or revolver. Most gun deaths are suicides. Most mass shooters are non-white.

    Women, elderly and handicapped like AR15s for self-defense because there is little recoil. I don't think that they shoot any faster than the Sig Sauer M17, for example, and dozens of other pistols like that. AR15 is available in a pistol.
     
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