A Prayer To The Blessed Virgin...

[DHK]

Originally posted by Seth3:

So whats your point? You have to have one right?

New Jerusalem which comes down out of Heaven from God is our Mother. I said nothing that Mary was. I'm not talking about physical virginity and could care less really.

The point is that Mary has nothing to do with the New Jerusalem, the Church, or any other part of your theology.

Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

The New Jerusalem is the bride of Christ. It has nothing to do with Mary, and certainly is not our mother. This kind of theology is to be avoided at all costs.
DHK

 

[Seth3]

DHK,

No kidding, how do you see I implied it?

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the MOTHER of us all.

Scriptures differ with YOU DHK

Mary is a PATERN of US bringing forth Christ in us. NOT of OUR MOTHER- pay attention and stop being so judgemental.

Its God's scriptures take it up with Him if you think it should be "avoided at all costs"


God Bless

Seth3

[ October 27, 2004, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: Seth3 ]

 

[Melanie]

DHK!,What a novel concept Mary going to the temple with a sin offering! All women presented to the Temple with an offering for the ritual of thanksgiving after the birth of a child is all.

I tremble at your temerity of casting slights at the mother of Jesus our Lord our God.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Briony-Gloriana:
DHK!,What a novel concept Mary going to the temple with a sin offering! All women presented to the Temple with an offering for the ritual of thanksgiving after the birth of a child is all.

I tremble at your temerity of casting slights at the mother of Jesus our Lord our God.

Tremble as you will. Mary was a sinner like any other individual. She presented two offerings, and one of them was a sin-offering, admitting her sinfulness to God. Study the passage out for yourself and be not Biblically ignorant.
DHK

 

[Seth3]

Look who is biblically ignorant DHK. The True Authority God gives is for building up not tearing down. You look down your nose in scorn to someone calling others ignorant yet YOU said to me (above) that "the theology" I expressed as Jerusalem from above is our Mother was to be avoided, at "all costs". Yet it shows it clearly in scripture.

You are so eager to push yourself up and over others and God has held your unrepentent heart accountable.

Your a cloud without rain twice dead bearing no fruit which withereth from the vine. FEASTING ON others for your own superiority complex. God resists you and your proud heart and the fruit you do NOT bear is evidenced by the truth.

Seth3

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I cannot think of an orginization with a bigger superiority complex than the RCC.

And no, I don't want to elaborate.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Seth3:
Look who is biblically ignorant DHK. The True Authority God gives is for building up not tearing down. You look down your nose in scorn to someone calling others ignorant yet YOU said to me (above) that "the theology" I expressed as Jerusalem from above is our Mother was to be avoided, at "all costs". Yet it shows it clearly in scripture.

You are so eager to push yourself up and over others and God has held your unrepentent heart accountable.

Your a cloud without rain twice dead bearing no fruit which withereth from the vine. FEASTING ON others for your own superiority complex. God resists you and your proud heart and the fruit you do NOT bear is evidenced by the truth.

Seth3

Before throwning names around, prove yourself Scripturally. I provided my stand with Scripture. Now show me from the Bible where the New Jerusalem is referred to as our mother. Show me this heretical doctrine that you believe in. If you can demonstrate it from the Bible I will refrain from using the word heretical, otherwise it is.
DHK

 

[Seth3]

DHK

I did already (you blew past the post judging it before YOU looked it up) but you were too busy accusing everyone else of "heretical" teaching convinced of your rightness that you breeze past anything anyone says.

Gal 4:26 But JERUSALEM which is ABOVE IS FREE, which is the MOTHER OF US ALL.

Your doctrine is in words not in life or power you have NO FRUIT because of the pride of your heart. Your as the SMOKE in His nostrils.

Seth3

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Seth3:
DHK

I did already (you blew past the post judging it before YOU looked it up) but you were too busy accusing everyone else of "heretical" teaching convinced of your rightness that you breeze past anything anyone says.

Gal 4:26 But JERUSALEM which is ABOVE IS FREE, which is the MOTHER OF US ALL.

Your doctrine is in words not in life or power you have NO FRUIT because of the pride of your heart. Your as the SMOKE in His nostrils.

Seth3

Context is everything:

Galatians 4:24-31 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

--The wife of Abraham was Sarah.
The wife of Isaac was Rebekkah.
The wife of Jacob was Rachel (and Leah).

The entire passage is an ALLEGORY. The bondwoman, Hagar (the mistress of Sarah) was cast out. She represents the law that was given at Mount Sinai, and thus the dispensation of the Law and those that are bound under it. The free woman is Sarah, the true wife of Abraham. In the allegory she is the one that represents Jerusalem. She is the one that is the mother of all spiritual children or believers.
This has nothing to do with Mary. How do you read Mary into this passage? Mary is a guilty sinner like all others in this world. "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Mary is part of the "all" as well. She needed a Saviour just as much as we all do.
DHK

 

[Seth3]

DHK says,

The entire passage is an ALLEGORY


Seth3 replies

No one said Jerusalem from above WAS NOT ONE. You called it "heritical" before you even read it (throwing your hands up in the air as if you Mr. know it all)

You have to get the love of God IN YOU rather then you verses lined up as ducks in a row. You can know everything and have not love and BE NOTHING AT ALL without love. You stampeding on others and throwing your weight around by your own power is not of God. You can die in your rightness you have no fruit.


Mary a patern of "people" (US) NOT the New Jerusalem that is above. As a WOMAN giving birth to a child (Jesus said to HIS DISCIPLES) SO IT IS WITH YOU. As Christ was a SIGN to be spoken against so also are they who have Christ in them.

In your own words, "IT IS AN ALLEGORY"

Gal 4:26 But JERUSALEM which is ABOVE IS FREE, which is the MOTHER OF US ALL.


Don't give me "context" like I'm some idiot under you. I would never ask you about the HOPE you have because I see nothing I could hope for IN YOU.

Seth3

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Seth3:
DHK says,

The entire passage is an ALLEGORY


Seth3 replies

No one said Jerusalem from above WAS NOT ONE. You called it "heritical" before you even read it (throwing your hands up in the air as if you Mr. know it all)

You have to get the love of God IN YOU rather then you verses lined up as ducks in a row. You can know everything and have not love and BE NOTHING AT ALL without love. You stampeding on others and throwing your weight around by your own power is not of God. You can die in your rightness you have no fruit.


Mary a patern of "people" (US) NOT the New Jerusalem that is above. As a WOMAN giving birth to a child (Jesus said to HIS DISCIPLES) SO IT IS WITH YOU. As Christ was a SIGN to be spoken against so also are they who have Christ in them.

In your own words, "IT IS AN ALLEGORY"

Gal 4:26 But JERUSALEM which is ABOVE IS FREE, which is the MOTHER OF US ALL.


Don't give me "context" like I'm some idiot under you. I would never ask you about the HOPE you have because I see nothing I could hope for IN YOU.

Seth3

Mary is a "patern" for the body of Christ.

This is an unfounded Roman Catholic heretical statement that cannot be backed up by Scripture. You have floundered trying to use a verse in Revelation that I quoted for you that refers to the Bride of Christ. Then you quoted Gal.4:26 that refers allegorically to Sarah. Nothing in all of this has to do with Mary. Absoultely nothing. So, why did you bring Mary into the picture at all. The Bible does not put Mary on a pedestal as the RC's do. The Bible does not use Mary as a pattern for the body of Christ. That is heresy. Christ Himself is our example, not Mary.
IT seems to me that as long as you hang on to this concept of Mary, you know nothing of context. As for the love of God, you know what ye speak of.
DHK

 

[Seth3]

I'm sorry But I am not a Roman Catholic I'm a follower of Christ. Because of your hatred or perception of an instutition I have no ties to whatsoever has clouded your judgement.

Mary is SYMBOLIC ONLY. Expressed in scripture by Woman born UNDER THE LAW in whom Christ was born to REDEEM those under the Law. All is Allegory.

Two Trees in the Garden= Tree of knowledge of good and evil (The Law) and Tree of Life (Faith in Christ) these each BEAR FRUITS in whatever you are trusting in, in your heart.

Mt Siani (Law)= Death darkness fear

Mt Zion (Faith)= Life Faith and love.

The problem with you is you cant see a pattern unless its laid out for you in black or white. It contradicts nothing. It VALIDATES Christ alone who IS THE TRUTH.

Your fruit condemns you because you believe that Truth is a bunch of facts you fill your head with and look down your nose at others. When in fact it is Jesus Christ Himself and anyone in Him would no do the things you do to others.

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, MADE UNDER THE LAW= Mary a SYMBOLIC PERSON whose REALITY was in those UNDER THE LAW to REDEEM THEM FROM IT. and God also SENDS HIS SPIRIT INTUR HEARTS and CHRIST IS FORMED IN YOU (If you have His Spirit). That CHRIST may DWELL IN OUR HEARTS BY FAITH. For the law made NOTHING PERFECT. We are MADE PERFECT BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST. God found FAULT with those UNDER THE OLD COVENANT. The NEW COVENANT He REMEMBERS THEIR SINS NO MORE IN CHRIST. JUSTIFIED BY THE FAITH OF CHRIST.


Seth3

 

[Seth3]

Mary WAS UNDER THE LAW. Do you NOT SEE HER SACRIFICES FOR SIN OFFERING? BOTH are an ALLEGORY. Seen as an allegory there is TRUTH IN BOTH NOT in THEMSELVES but as the truth is SEEN IN CHRIST THROUGH IT.

Cain and Abel
Esau and Jacob
Pharisees and Christ
Man of Sin and Man of Faith

They are allegorys of a greater truth which is The Natural man and the Spiritual man Christ.

Get this and your seeing something.

Seth3

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Seth3:
I'm sorry But I am not a Roman Catholic I'm a follower of Christ. Because of your hatred or perception of an instutition I have no ties to whatsoever has clouded your judgement.

I doubt very much that you are qualified to speak on hatred or love.

Psalms 97:10 Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked.

Psalms 101:3 I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me.

Psalms 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.

Psalms 119:128 Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way.

Proverbs 8:13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

Amos 5:15 Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph.

Mary is SYMBOLIC ONLY. Expressed in scripture by Woman born UNDER THE LAW in whom Christ was born to REDEEM those under the Law. All is Allegory.

Mary is not symbolic, not even in that passage. Christ was made of a woman born under the law. The emphasis is that He was conceived of a virgin thus not inheriting the sin nature of man. The fact that God chose Mary is totally irrelevant to the thelogical teaching being taught here. He could have chosen any virgin. Mary was only a vessel used at that time and point in history to bring Jesus into the world. He had to use someone. To elevate Mary on a pedestal above all, is sin.

Two Trees in the Garden= Tree of knowledge of good and evil (The Law) and Tree of Life (Faith in Christ) these each BEAR FRUITS in whatever you are trusting in, in your heart.

Mt Siani (Law)= Death darkness fear

Mt Zion (Faith)= Life Faith and love.

The problem with you is you cant see a pattern unless its laid out for you in black or white. It contradicts nothing. It VALIDATES Christ alone who IS THE TRUTH.

You read too much into the Scripture. All the Scripture is not to be allegorized. Will you allegorize the death, burial and resurrection of Christ also, as the J.W.'s allegorize the resurrection of Christ?

Your fruit condemns you because you believe that Truth is a bunch of facts you fill your head with and look down your nose at others. When in fact it is Jesus Christ Himself and anyone in Him would no do the things you do to others.

You are not one to judge. You don't know what fruit there has been or is in my life. You have set yourself up as a god. I don't judge according to my own opinions. I judge according to the Word of God. If a doctrine is not according to the Word of God, it is wrong. Most doctrines of the RC church are man-made doctrines and are quite heretical. I know. I have been there--for twenty years. Thank God, the Lord saved me out of that heretical institution that damns the souls of men to hell every day.

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, MADE UNDER THE LAW= Mary a SYMBOLIC PERSON whose REALITY was in those UNDER THE LAW to REDEEM THEM FROM IT. and God also SENDS HIS SPIRIT INTUR HEARTS and CHRIST IS FORMED IN YOU (If you have His Spirit). That CHRIST may DWELL IN OUR HEARTS BY FAITH. For the law made NOTHING PERFECT. We are MADE PERFECT BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST. God found FAULT with those UNDER THE OLD COVENANT. The NEW COVENANT He REMEMBERS THEIR SINS NO MORE IN CHRIST. JUSTIFIED BY THE FAITH OF CHRIST.
Seth3

All of this has nothing to do with Mary, per se, as I previously explained to you. God's Holy Spirit only dwells in man, if man chooses to accept Christ as his personal Saviour. He does not force himself on any person.
DHK

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Seth3:
Mary WAS UNDER THE LAW. Do you NOT SEE HER SACRIFICES FOR SIN OFFERING? BOTH are an ALLEGORY. Seen as an allegory there is TRUTH IN BOTH NOT in THEMSELVES but as the truth is SEEN IN CHRIST THROUGH IT.

Cain and Abel
Esau and Jacob
Pharisees and Christ
Man of Sin and Man of Faith

They are allegorys of a greater truth which is The Natural man and the Spiritual man Christ.

Get this and your seeing something.

Seth3

Again you read too much into Scripture. Not everything is allegorical. That is where you go astray. Mary's sin offering was just that--a sin offering, offered because she was a sinner just like any other person would offer a sin offering.

Cain and Abel came before God to offer their sacrifices. These were not just symbolical allegorical sacrifices. God required a specific type of sacrifice. I believe that God required a sacrifice that shed blood, such as Abel offered.
"Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin."
Cain did not offer a blood sacrifice. He wanted the sacrifice to be on his terms not God's. Thus his sacrifice was unacceptable to God. God judged him for it. Disobedience to God, sin, has its consequences.
DHK

 

[Seth3]

Put a cork in it really DHK you don't disipher to me how I see the scriptures the Lord does. Theres no straying seeing Christ who is THE TRUTH of them.

You keep saying "Mary was a sinner" I KNOW THIS. I'm not harping on it you are.

The premise of the New Covenant is "no longer will man teach His neighbor saying know the Lord for all shall know me from the least to the greatest.

You add nothing to anything. Your not Lord or Teacher don't set yourself up like you are.

Pharisees knew scripture better then anyone else but the missed the entire point. You can think you know it all DHK but nothing matters but Love and you show nothing of it to others by your constant insulting of them. You try to LORD OVER others... GET OUT OF THE WAY.

Know why the SUN is Darkened in Revelation??? Its darkened by REASON OF THE SMOKE of THE PIT.

Know WHO the "SMOKE" IS??? Its those who say "Stand by thyself I'm HOLIER THEN THOU" THESE SAYS THE LORD ARE A "SMOKE" IN MY NOSTRILS.

They stand in the way, get in your face, Lord over others, take Moses seat, look down upon you, cast insults on you. Its ALL PRIDE.

God resists you, you have facts but nothing more


Seth3

 

[Seth3]

DHK says

Cain did not offer a blood sacrifice. He wanted the sacrifice to be on his terms not God's. Thus his sacrifice was unacceptable to God. God judged him for it. Disobedience to God, sin, has its consequences.


Seth3 replies
I don't dont see God asking for one back THEN- Explain it if you know.


Abel Typed Jesus Christ whose blood cried out from the Ground, Religious PHARISEES KILLED HIM=SEED OF CAIN

Anything not OF FAITH IS SIN. Disobedience is NOT WALKING BY FAITH.

Why not offer up to Him your Carnal self as an offering to Him that He might bathe His Sword in your blood? Maybe then the mountains of pride in your heart can be made low and He can dwell there and we can recieve something useful.


Seth3

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Seth3:
Put a cork in it really DHK you don't disipher to me how I see the scriptures the Lord does. Theres no straying seeing Christ who is THE TRUTH of them.

Seth3

Seth, I gave you a warning in another thread. This is your second warning. Personal attacks will not be tolerated. If you can't post decently don't post at all.

3. Show grace to the other posters. When someone disagrees with you, discuss it; but be slow to offend, and eager to get into the Word and find the answers. Remember, when discussing passionate issues, it is easy to go too far and offend. Further, if we are "earnestly contending for the faith" it would be unrealistic not to expect at times to be misunderstood or even ridiculed. But please note that your words can sometimes be harsh if used in the wrong way. The anger of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
4. Personal attacks will not be tolerated. The board has an edit button enabled. We encourage you to use it and edit your own words. Moderators and Administrators will be visibly proactive in dealing with potentially offensive situations. Posts of a violent or threatening nature, either implicitly or explicitly, will be deleted, and the poster's membership revoked. We encourage personal problems with other members be resolved privately via email or personal messaging.

In the future you may expect some type of action to be taken.
DHK

 

[Seth3]

I'm sure there will be....Christ said there would be and I believe Him.

What a blessings will be poured on me because of the actions you feel are nessasary.

Bless the Lord for any actions you feel are nessessary. Ofcourse if one cannot be controlled by others and if ones testisfies what another does is wrong in Christ one is asked to leave-So typical so Cain.

Think when Jesus spoke to the Pharisees about being broad of vipers that He was yeilding to "personal attacks" or do you think He told the truth and didn't need to be offended?

Think Paul when He said he'd wish that they would go all the way and cut themselves off that he was doing something "personal" or speaking the truth?

So if I'm not back here, it was very nice to be with all of you. Don't let others keep you from Christ or lord over your faith. We have One God One Lord and One Teacher and HE said ALL would KNOW ME and you would have no need for man to teach you any longer. BELIEVE THAT.


Seth3

 

[Gina B]

Please continue on with the topic this thread was intended for.
Seth, I'm shooting a pm your way, please take a moment to check it out.
Gina