I don't know that anyone is saying one is a grievous sin and the other isn't.
What I object to is an attempt to paint with a very broad brush an entire people as "evil" and conspiring against me. I don't believe that of Muslems, Hindus, Catholics, or Jews.
If, generally speaking, they "hate" me because I am a Christian, then I already understand and expect that because Jesus told us it would happen. The entire world hates Christ and Christians are not to be spared the persecution.
Most Jews, however, are not particularly involved in the day to day activities of world domination or the on-going stuggle with the Jesuits to control SBC seminaries.:rolleyes:
peace to you:praying:
A Question
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by OldRegular, Jun 28, 2009.
Page 2 of 8
-
-
Bro, you are confusing Amillennialism with Covenant theology.
What some Roman Catholics call "Covenant Theology", is actually completely different from reformed Covenant theology. And EVEN THIS "Covenant theology", did not come about until the 20th century, long after the reformers, the inquisition, and the whole business. -
Go to any Catholic apologist. They will thoroughly walk you through the various Covenants. I know; we had them here for some time. The Catholics believe in a form of Replacement Theology. They (the RCC) are the ones that have replaced Israel. The Covenant is now for the Catholics. They pattern their religion after the OT--priests interceding on behalf of the people, the sacrifice of the mass, the baptism of infants relating to the circumcision in the OT, etc. Theirs is a Covenant Theology. It always has been. -
Please don't tell me that there are not many different types of Covenant theologians. I know there are. There lies the fallacy in your argument.
BTW, T.T. Shields was an amillenialist who was a dispensationalist at the same time. I am not speaking of eschatology here. You are confused. -
And, in fact, John 5:29 specifically differentiates between two resurrections, I believe, as well, as opposed to teaching any "general resurrection". Let's look at the verse.
Further, may I suggest that others who hold to some of these other ideas, anywhere from classic dispensationalism to preterism and A-millenialism also believe their eschatology to be entirely Biblical, just as you do, as well.
But nice 'shot' anyway.
BTW, I do have multiple Biblical disagreements with stilllearning, FTR.
Ed -
Agreed.
You will have to show proof and documentation that RC is based on Covenant theology.Fact is the RC Theologians attack the doctrines of grace not the other way around.
Yes the Bible is the final authority.
Do you believe that divorced men should be in the pulpit leading the flock according to the pastoral epistles of St Paul?
We do agree so far on your quoted post.
God bless you in Jesus name.
Steven. -
I am not confused BTW. Eschatological Schemes are inevitably tied to the Dispensational/Covenant debate. Amillennial dispensationalism is contradictory. -
-
-
Do you believe it is a sin to lie? Have you ever lied?
Do you believe it is a sin to covet? Have you ever coveted?
Do you believe it is a sin to get angry? Have you ever lost your temper?
Sin is sin; Whether it is divorce or lying. God forgives sin. That has no bearing on whether or not I believe dispensationalism or whether it is correct according to the Word of God. Why are you throwing around red herrings that have nothing to do with this topic. -
I cannot speak to any other seminaries, which are not Southern Baptist, and about which I effectively know nothing and will not attempt to do so, but your completely unsupported allegation here about "SBC Seminaries" is scurrilous, at best. :(
Ed -
Brother before dispensationalism came along there was no confusion about the 1st Resurrection.The 1st resurrection is a spiritual one and pre-1800`s knew this well.Also the hath in the KJ Bible is past tense refering to some-thing that has already taken place.Also the 1000 years in Revelation is symbolic of the Church age and many of the reformers believed this until the theology was hijacked.Brother your waiting on a Millennium that your living in now.
The 2nd Resurrection will happen and the lost and saved will be judged at the great white throne and is not seperated by a 1007 years.
1st Resurrection
{Ephesians 2:6}And HATH RAISED us up together,and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.
{Col 2:12} Buried with him in baptism,wherein also YE ARE RISEN with him through faith of the operation of God,who hath raised him from the dead.
Rest of the dead is the spiritually dead{i.e.the lost}those that have died without Christ and at the end of the 1000 years symbolic of the Church age all lost and saved will be resurrected to be judged {GWT} and the saints will join Christ in the air POST-TRIB RAPTURE.
{Rev 20:5}But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.This is the first resurrection.
God bless you in Jesus.
Steven. -
Also, if there is a reigning of the Lord Jesus Christ, I certainly do not see it, except in the spiritual manner, these days. I surely don't see the lion lying down with the kid, nations beating their swords into plowshares, or Jesus ruling from Jerusalem.
You might also want to do a bit of study on 'chiliaism' in the early days of the church, as well, to note that there have been many varied opinions on this since "Day 1". Early 'leaders' such as Justin, Ireaneus, Tertullian, Papias and Lactanus believed this while such other 'leaders' such as Origen, Eusebius, and Dionysius of Alexandria opposed the teaching. There is, has, and had been no single idea about this, for nearly two millenia, regardless of what you are proposing, although at various times one idea or another has had greater preeminence than others, the majority of the 'Reformers' notwithstanding.
Ed -
Covenant Theology as espoused by the reformers is a modification of the Catholic version which is better known as Replacement Theology but it's roots come from and are directly linked to that theological construct. It is somewhat but not much different from its Roman Catholic counterpart with the exception that they believe the Church (which is a seperate entity) has replaced Israel as God people since they have been permenantly removed from that position. Covenant holds that the CHurch is a continuation of Israel. Remember the 'Reformers' were not trying to break away from the Catholic Church but were trying to 'reform' some of it's view they saw are becoming apostate. (and praise God for them :) )
It is this Roman Catholic view known also as "Replacement Theology" is what usuruped the Premil view of the early church fathers, -
-
I personally don't understand how a person can get A- or post millennialism from scripture. I am very much Pre-mil. But I also don't understand how someone can get dispensationalism out of the Bible, either. -
Well whatever it`s full meaning we are already raised spiritually speaking with Christ.
{1st Cor 15:25} For he must reign,till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
We know the last enemy is death 1st Cor 15:26
The lion laying with the kid and nations beating their swords into plowshares cannot refer to a 1000 year Millennium on earth after Christ returns because this earth will be destroyed/Dissolved {G3089} not renovated with fire.
{2nd Peter 3:7,10,11,12}
Also a 1000 year Millennium after Christ return contradicts the Scripture because {2nd Peter 3:7,10,11,12}after the earth is dissolved with fire Peter was expecting a New Heavens and New Earth {2nd Peter 3:13}according to Gods promise {Isaiah 65:17-25:12}-{2nd Peter 3:13}-{Rev 21:1}
This earth will become the former one that shall never be again {Isaiah 65:17}.
The Bible is very clear that the lost and saved will be Judged at the same Judgment {Matthew 25:32}-{2nd Cor 5:10}-{Heb 9:27}-{2nd Peter 2:9}-{2nd Peter 3:7}-{Jude 14,15}
The very ones that crucified Christ 2000 years ago will see him upon his return at the resurrection not a 1007 years later even so amen.{Rev 1:7}
Resurrection of the just and unjust at the same time in {Daniel 12:2}
The ruling from David`s Throne was the resurrection of Christ and His exaltation to the right hand of God the father.This is where Scofield`s system is wrong.There is not but one Throne of God and Jesus is on it {Rev 1:4}says the seven Spirits are before His Throne}.
Scofield could not see that Jesus being exalted to Kingship was Davids Throne.
Phil 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him,and given him a name which is above every name {Heb 1:9 1st Peter 3:22}
Acts 2:31 says this is what the prophecy was about {i.e.the resurrection and exaltation of Christ to Kingship was Davids Throne..
We will get a brand New Heaven and Earth where flesh and blood cannot go.
Agreed and God bless in Jesus. -
The Roman Catholics may have a Covenant Theology, I don't know. But it is not the theology of the Reformation. I do agree that they draw many of their practices from the Levitical priesthood of the Old Testament.
The nation Israel finished their mission in God's redemptive purpose with the birth of Jesus Christ. The New Testament Church is a continuation of spiritual Israel of the Old Testament as the Apostle Paul shows in his parable of the olive trees. God has only one people as the Southern Baptist Faith and Message states.
And now back to the OP, I hope. -
One time, one voice, one resurrection of both the good and the evil!
All the versions you presented state that they shall come out or forth when they hear that voice at that one time.
-
Page 2 of 8