This quote that Icon started his OP with was mine:
It is in the Calvinist thread and entirely ripped out of its context.
The verse in context is in Ephesians: Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
I understand this referring to the local church today
God gave us pastors and teachers ...for the perfecting of the saints, the work of the ministry...the body of Christ, ...the unity of the faith today.
In context Icon would like to be the Pope of the Calvinists and enforce his recommended lists of Reformed books (catechisms, Confessions of Faith, etc.) on me and every other believer whether they be Calvinist or non-Calvinist.
He believes that the "Godly teachers" of these confessions are included in the "teachers" of Eph.4:11.
I assure you They are not!! Icon is wrong.
Paul had no such intention of including the authors of any CoF in Ephesians 4:11. He was speaking of the pastors and teachers of the current local churches, not books, creeds, confessions, etc.
Icon has taken a quote out of context for his own ultra-Calvinist motives, and has misused it.
I resent being misrepresented.
He should apologize.
Good grief, so I guess I can now safely go to the thread dude started about "What do Baptists and Catholics have in common" and submit that they have the Pope and we have Icon :confused:
Not only that, but in this exact same thread he waveyed somebody to perdition and double posted. :eek:
It might be an overstatement, but unless I read his recommended list of links, sermons, and Confessions, he believes that I remain uneducated. :rolleyes:
In application:
Would the pulpit committee of your church vote in the book "Spurgeon's Sermons" as its pastor?
That is the reality.
Pastors and teachers are real people, not books and the writings of dead people, as Icon's OP states.
That's not what the OP was saying whatsoever. He's saying the teachings of the likes of Gill, Tozer, Spurgeon, Clarke, Pink, et al, just because they've departed, doesn't mean they're not still profitable.
I think you're off about the original intent.
Icon said:
This wasn't a question about a pulpit committee or a church calling books or writings of dead pastors to lead the church. It was a question about whether or not the teachings of these dead Saints are still useful after they die?
I believe they are as Scripture is static. We aren't teaching anything that these dead, long gone Saints haven't already taught. So why wouldn't correct teaching still be useful?
I love watching Adrian Roger's old sermons. I learn from them all the time.
I am not off at all. We all agree that these older commentators have value. That is not in question.
The OP basis its premise on my words. This statement is from me:
The Bible teaches that God gave "the church" (local churches) teachers,
pastors, evangelists, etc. The teaching there is that these men were
given to local churches. He did not give to local church dead men. We
learn primarily from the pastors and teachers of our own local
pastors,
not the dead ones.
This is what Icon calls a "Strange Idea."
What I am saying or said, in a thread in Calvinism, is that the pastors and teachers of the local church are not books, but actual people. That was in refutation of his statement that I gave a link to.
Eph. 4:11 does not refer to books and commentaries.
He is using my words from another thread out of context, making me say something I never said. That is a deliberate misrepresentation, and it is wrong for him to do so.
And you are also correct:thumbsup:
You see...what Icon posted
does not matter to DHK.....he makes up what he wanted Icon, or Bosley, or Con1, or Zaac to post....then it makes it easier for him to attack the strawman position:laugh:
.
That would be absurd:laugh:
Got to give it DHK...he has a very active imagination..calling books and writings of dead pastors to lead the church...lol...this is a classic!
Of course...ICON MUST HAVE MEANT THAT>>>Because DHK says so...lol
Yes DHK believes the teaching has an expiration date, like milk that has gone sour...lol
As you brothers have stepped forward and seen this folly...DHK will now backtrack and say...it is now okay to use some of the men....just not the ones I would suggest:laugh:
Got it!
keep on learning and serving. Thanks for reading the OP clearly!!
I will deal with your posting in full in about 5 hours from now...I am on a quick lunch break......I am glad you now believe mis-representation is a slander...so maybe you will stop doing it.Everyone has read your posting and seen very clearly who is doing the misrepresentation.
I do not have to misrepresent your posts...they are best as written by you as you make one blunder after another...I just say something about it so you do not get to be a cyber-bully.
The whole thread is there to be read....I took the most ridiculous portion and started a thread...which I said in the other thread that I would...but you have to put your own evil spin on it ...as is your M.O.
DHK...ask the others if what I am saying about your M.O. is true or not, if you do not like to hear it from me.
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I will fully deal with this when I can sit...I will show from both threads...just for you DHK.....these other brothers see what is going on...right here in midday....explain to them as you dig a bigger hole for yourself...I will answer you in full later on.....nice chatting with you DHK:love2:
ps. here is your strongman argument;
these men were given to local churches DHK...when they were alive in the body.
They preached ,wrote studies and books for their people and for us also.....pastors can speak in other churches today...Your position is foolish and unbiblical...I will show it even more later on.