I do not want the question to be hurtful in any way.
Nor do I want some to assume I am in favor of abortion without cause (health of the unborn and life of the mother).
So here is the premiss and question:
First, it is assumed that all babies that die go to heaven.
Second, it is assumed that all who grow to the age of accountability (using a good Baptist term) are responsible for their own lost estate and without Christ will spend eternity in the Lake of Fire.
Question:
Is it righteous to prevent the absolute certainty of one going to heaven by preventing the ability of being aborted?
Abortion question
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by agedman, Feb 5, 2014.
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While I disagree with your premise I would ask. Is it righteous to play God?
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If God holds the keys to death and "Hades," can any abortion occur without His consent? -
I don't think that Scripture shows that babies and the such go to heaven. But I have no problem hoping that a JUST God always makes that determination.
The only reason I say we shouldn't say that is a certainty is that it speaks to abortion being the answer instead of Jesus.
Is it possible to sin in the womb? -
It is assumed that until "the age of accountability" that when one dies, they go to heaven.
If not, then it brings up all manner of questions concerning the death of infants - even that of the need for pedobaptism. -
By the way any and all abortion is murder and playing God. Any person who finds solace of any kind from their sin of murder (abortion) from the teaching the mudered baby is in heaven is a sin denier. Just to be clear so it does not seem like I am condemning others. I have taken part in this so I have been a murderer. Forgiven, thank God yes, but with no solace except the grace that God has bestowed on me. -
JohnDeereFan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
kill
Answer: No.
First of all, you assume that there's some magic, arbitrary age, before which, people aren't accountable for their sin. Not true. The "age of accountability" isn't found anywhere in scripture.
We assume, based on certain verses, that God shows mercy to those who, either being too young or feebleminded, cannot grasp the moral consequences of their sin. But that's an assumption and an extrapolation on our part, not an explicit Biblical teaching.
All sin occurs under God's permissive will, but is a violation of His sovereign will.
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Awe lets just kill all babies under 2 years old so all will go to Heaven.
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Taking that view as accurate to BAPTISTS, which the OP does, then the question remains viable - even if restated as you post.
Secondly, the idea of "playing God" is just as accurately painted toward those who are anti-abortionist in view. Perhaps for two reasons:
First, (being very delicate here, folks) perhaps it is God's will that some die in abortion, just as it is when one is still born or through miscarriage. Does one "play God" when determining life and death of the yet born more important than life and death of the born?
Could it not be that the very judgment of God displayed upon the world by withholding those who may have grown to the honor and glory of God? Often one considers that if only there was another great revival or moving of the Spirit. But does not God show judgment upon people by withholding even prophets and teachers of truth? -
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JohnDeereFan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Unless you're claiming open theism, God already knows what's going to happen with those babies, how they're going to grow up, that they're going to die unsaved.
God is glorified in the judgment of the non-elect just as much as He is in the salvation of the elect.
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Good Golly Miss Molly.
1) Do all who die before the age of accountability go to heaven? No, all who are conceived in iniquity and unbelief are condemned already.
2) As Shakespeare said, Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive. What if babies who die before the age of accountability do not go to heaven, but are condemned as scripture teaches? Not because they have done anything good or bad, but as a consequence of Original Sin, they were made sinners. They did not become sinners when they first sinned after the age of accountability.
3) This cult like advocacy of child sacrifice to save them is an abomination to the Lord. -
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Hands that shed innocent blood are an abomination to God.
Think about these mothers... there are abortion therapy groups for a reason.
You want to put that on a mother? -
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Paul clearly taught he was spiritually alive until he learned the law.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Paul is clearly speaking of learning the law as a young Jewish man in verse 7. He said he would not have known what lust is, except the law had said thou shalt not covet.
Paul shows that sin has no power without law. Therefore sin can have no power over little children who do not know and understand between good and evil. This is clearly shown in Deu 1:39 where God allowed the children of the Jews who sinned in the wilderness to enter the Promised Land.
Deu 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.
The Promised Land is a figure of heaven. The Jews who sinned in the wilderness were not allowed in, but the children who did not know between good and evil were allowed to go in and possess it.
Back to Romans 7, Paul clearly says he was spiritually alive until the commandment came. This is when he learned the law. Upon learning the law and understanding between good and evil he became accountable and was convicted as a sinner. He spiritually died. Paul could not possibly be speaking of physical death here.
Children are not born dead in sin, and they are not held accountable until they learn and understand good from evil.
You are WAY off here Van.
And no, we should not kill children to get them into heaven, that is murder. -
Hi Winman, one of us is clearly wrong. Scripture says we were made sinners, not made predisposed to sin innocents. I have rebutted all your arguments, but all you do re-post them and ignore the rebuttals.
Have a nice day.
Abortion is murder, and anyone who argues for sacrificing children so they might remain pleasing to God is an abomination to the Lord. -
It is a scathing report about the sexual abuse and immorality of the priests, but it also includes recommendations for sex ed, including abortions, unfortunately.
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