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Featured Acts 13:48

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by RipponRedeaux, Jul 14, 2023.

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  1. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    "All you synergists believe receiving/accepting Christ is a choice made of your own free will."

    Synergism: the doctrine that the human will cooperates with the Holy Ghost in the work of regeneration.

    Monergism: the doctrine that the Holy Ghost acts independently of the human will in the work of regeneration.
     
  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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  3. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Just like the bible tells us. IF you believe the gospel message and trust in Christ Jesus THEN you will be saved. IF you do not THEN you will be lost. One is only regenerated/born again if they believe.
    Rom_10:9 if you confess ...and believe ...{then} you will be saved. You must believe before you are saved.

    Monergism: the doctrine that the Holy Ghost acts independently of the human will in the work of regeneration.[/QUOTE]

    Under your Monergism man is saved or lost on an arbitrary bases. This is contrary to what the bible says.

    What the bible teaches is it
    Rom 3:21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
    Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;
    Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
    Rom 3:24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
    Rom 3:25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith.

    Only God saves and He only saves those that freely believe in Him.
     
  4. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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  5. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Lol, 'the rest of the story':

    28 And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose.
    29 For whom he foreknew, he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren:
    30 and whom he foreordained, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. Ro 8
     
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  6. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Wrong.

    14 Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged. 1 Cor 2
     
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  7. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    You must think I do not read and understand the rest of the bible?
    Rom 8:28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
    Rom 8:29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
    Rom 8:30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

    So we see that those that are glorified are those that were justified and those who were justified were those that had been called and those that were called were predestined to be conformed to the likeness of His son. But do you notice what is missing, that He only called/invited a select number of persons.

    The bible is not a book of one liners that you pick and choose from. The bible is about the redemption of man through faith in God. We are foreknow that we can be conformed to the image of His son we are chosen in Christ that we would be holy and blameless before Him. But we are only included in that group if we freely trust in the Son. We have to believe as God does not believe for us or He has failed in His stated desire of all being saved.
    1Ti 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
    1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
     
  8. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    No. I know you to be of those Paul identified that can’t accept Sovereign Grace.

    “Why does He yet find fault”?

    “is there unrighteousness with God”?

    By far and away the bulk of the baiting/trolling you do to entice others into your rabbit holes has its roots in either one of those complaints against God.

    You’re a dime a dozen.
     
    #28 kyredneck, Jul 15, 2023
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2023
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  9. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    You are right I do not accept your Calvinist "Sovereign Grace" which is just your code words for Calvinistic "divine determinism" which is not biblical. This idea was brought into the church by Augustine from paganism and then carried forward by Calvin and continues to be promoted by Calvinists today.

    I do not find fault with the bible but I do find fault with the abuse and misuse of scripture that I see with many that hold to that philosophy.
     
  10. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    As per normal for many Calvinists, when someone points out your errors in biblical understanding or logic you get upset and figuratively stamp your feet and whine that no one really understands your point of view.

    Taking verses out of context in the vain effort to prove your point just proves your point is actually not valid. But you will keep doing it I am sure. But like you said "You’re a dime a dozen."

    The idea that God unchangeably predestines His own children to reject His own truth for His own glory is so intuitively false that we don’t need to refute it.
    We just need to make sure that everyone understands that’s what Calvinism entails so they know to reject it.
     
  11. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Lol, I'm not the least upset, neither have I 'stamped my feet'. You really do make this stuff up as you go along in order to 'keep it going', anything to get your bloviation fix.

    That one probably falls into the “is there unrighteousness with God” category.

    Maybe someday you'll succeed at stamping out Calvinism and then maybe, just maybe, there'll be world peace. :)
     
    #31 kyredneck, Jul 15, 2023
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2023
  12. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    The verb translated 'appointed' has the basic meaning of to 'place or station a person or thing in a fixed spot', and secondarily to 'order, fix, determine, or appoint;, frequently by an authority figure who has power to establish someone in an office or position (Luke 7:8, Romans 13:1), or to set a certain day for something to happen (Acts 28:23). In Acts 13, the verb is a passive participle in the perfect tense, denoting an action that took place in the past but is relevant for the present. God is the agent, and He ordained or appointed these people for eternal life before the foundation of the world, and as a result of that, they believed the gospel that Paul and Barnabas preached that day. Election is the cause of faith, not the other way around. Note also that God ordained that these people should have eternal life, not merely that they should believe. Just as God chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His sight (i.e. perfect in heaven, Ephesians 1:4), so also here is Acts 13:48 it is clear that God ordains people not merely to begin the Christian journey of salvation but also to finish it. Faith is merely a means to an end. [ Taken from Andrew M. Davis' chapter called Unconditional Election : A Biblical And God-Glorifying Doctrine within the book Whomever He Wills : A Surprising Display Of Sovereign Mercy, pages 66,67]
     
  13. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    You sure do write like your upset. Your comments have progressively gotten , shell we say, hostile as I have continued to point out the errors in your view. You do not have to agree with men but you should at least try to agree with scripture.


    According to the Calvinist version of God there is. But thankfully the biblical God is not like the Calvinist one.


    Oh I doubt we will ever stamp out Calvinism, there will always be people that follow error.

    This may surprise you but I do not question your trust in Christ Jesus or your salvation. I just see Calvinism as an error filled theology that does not reflect what the biblical teachings are as it's roots are found in paganism.
     
  14. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    If you hear the message of the Gospel, you were already saved. See the Gospel is hid to them that are lost, so they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4

    3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

    4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

    The word hid means:
    1. to hide, veil

      1. to hinder the knowledge of a thing
    And its in the perfect tense, its a completed act in the past and its final.

    The only way to believe is for God to first save you from a lost condition, otherwise its completely hid, and we remain in unbelief.
     
  15. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    BF as long as you continue reading into the text what you want to find you will be in error. Note what Paul is saying. While the truth is available to them they have not believed and thus are lost. It is not that they can't believe it is that they will not believe. As we see in the following two verses the gospel is available to all and for those that accept it the light of truth shines in their hearts.

    We see the power of the gospel in the words of Christ.
    Mat 13:15 FOR THE HEARTS OF THIS PEOPLE HAVE GROWN DULL. THEIR EARS ARE HARD OF HEARING, AND THEIR EYES THEY HAVE CLOSED, LEST THEY SHOULD SEE WITH THEIR EYES AND HEAR WITH THEIR EARS, LEST THEY SHOULD UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEARTS AND TURN, SO THAT I SHOULD HEAL THEM.'
     
  16. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    ROFL!! Man, you're a trip. I've pointed out that Paul pointed out the root causes of you free-willers' rejection of Sovereign Grace:

    Others can go into your rabbit holes and feed your obsession if they want, I'm not interested. I know where you're coming from:

    “Why does He yet find fault”?

    “is there unrighteousness with God”?
     
  17. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Lost people cant believe what is hidden from them !
     
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  18. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    So what we see is that you do not actually trust scripture. But it has been determined for you to think the way you do. Under your theology your no more than a puppet, no independent thought. That is what your Calvinist theology teaches now you just have to come to grips with it.
     
  19. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    As I said, you make this crap up as you go along. None of the above is true. I'm not even a Calvinist.
     
  20. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    No. God's adoption of His is yet future, Romans 8:23, ". . . And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. . . ."
     
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