Most scholars I've talked to, and after having translated the passage in a rigorous exegesis course, agree that Genesis 1:1-2:3 is a poem.
Of course that doesn't disqualify the reality of creation.
Also, I reiterate my big question for those who believe Adam and Eve to be figurative or less that real, literal, historical people:
What do you do with the use of the definite article with their names?
Adam not literal????
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Shortandy, Jul 20, 2009.
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preachinjesus Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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The idea of Gen 1:1-2:3 is not even considered a complete portion by many, I don't think. Wenham says that most modern scholars agree that the section ends at 2:4a (cf. Wenham, Genesis 1-15, p. 6).
Gen 1:1-2:3 has virtually none of the characteristics of Hebrew poetry, which you should know if you took a "rigorous exegesis course" and translated it. I would doubt the value of any exegesis course that did not more fully discourse the characteristics of poetry. It has all the characteristics of Hebrew narrative. Were it not for the effort to discount the plain meaning of it, it is doubtful that anyone would have suggested that it was poetry.
One of the most common views today is the framework view, which has a number of exegetical and theological problems. It should be rejected, as should the idea that Gen 1:1-2:3, or any substantial portion of Genesis is poetic. -
After reading all the posts I've come to an even firmer conviction of the need for doctrinal statements like the Baptist Faith and Message 2000. Call it creedal or whatever, it prevents folks who want to take and twist the Bible from teaching in our seminaries, etc. Adam was one man. Eve was one woman. A literal, face value reading leaves no doubt. One has to read in between the lines to come up with any other conclusion.
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Crabtownboy Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Yet another thread that makes me shake my head and wonder how can Christians ask these questions? When we start questioning God's word as truth, we might as well throw the bible in the trash. It's very sad.
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
People do not get to own personal truth. Truth only comes from God and it is singular. Unless of course you want to make your agenda valid.
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Crabby proves my point. I certainly wouldn't want him teaching in my church, a Bible school, or a seminary that is SBC. Folks like this are exactly why there was a battle for the convention and why we need to stay vigilant.
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Crabtownboy Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
No, I will not reply to more inane comments. -
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There were a couple of word changes in Deuteronomy as discovered by the Dead Sea Scrolls...the new changes are preferred as the rythm and meter are restored with these changes and what has been thought to be the original is now seen as wrong and the new changes put in place...in part due to the rythm of the section is restored by these changes. (The age also has something to do with it)
Chiasma is another often used tool inside of the bible...it isn't just something that the politicians use for a tag line. It also is heavily employed in Genesis and the whole Torah. First and second Samuel are written almost completely in this fashion...most of them interlinked with each other.
For this reason it is why (in part) as to why the Torah and other OT books that we have are in tact and not changed. Changes are glaring and obvious when made. The rythm is completely destroyed by these changes. It took a God to write these books...madmen genius aren't dime a dozen. -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
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preachinjesus Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Westermann has noted the poetic structure, Brueggemann and von Rad as well. Augustine believed in multiple levels of interpretting Genesis 1 and poetry was certainly on the table with him.
All that said I don't think it is far fetched, given that Genesis 1 is polemical in nature...addressing pagan creation myths specifically. The great thing about Hebrew poetry is that it can be understood as historical in nature. Just because it is poetic doesn't disqualify it in light of the historic accounts.
I do believe that the text of Genesis, with maybe a few exceptions, is nearly all narrative prose. But let's not haggle over minor details. -
Again, there is nothing in the text of Gen 1 that would indicate that it is poetic. It reads, in Hebrew, just like the rest of Genesis does ... like historical narrative. -
The answer to "were Adam and Eve literal" is the same as "what color was Jesus' robe", "how many angels were at Jesus' tomb", or "was the star of bethlehem a star or planet?". The answer is: It's not important to the story.
It's not important whether Adam and Eve were literal, but it's important that they were real.
It's not important what color Jesus' robe was, but it's important that Jesus was given a robe.
It's not important how many angels were at Jesus' tome, but it's important that angels were present.
It's not important what the star was, but it's important that the wise men saw it. -
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whew boy, you sure lost me on the difference between literal and real. I read your "explanation" but it didn't explain anything. I've never heard anyone comment on the color of Jesus' robe so I am not sure where that comes in.
(from Dictionary.com)
Literal
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