From one who is neither a supporter, nor a critic of Paige Patterson - "So what?" What difference does it make whether President Patterson or someone else was around where the home was enlarged, or reduced in size, for that matter? Do you have specific knowledge that something is unethical or illegal in any of this? I presume if you are a Southern Baptist, you could get yourself on the board, or bring it up to the SBC, assuming you were a messenger, and then have a legitimate gripe, perhaps. As this is, this sounds like "sour grapes", to me.
Again, so what? Have you been asked to agree, somehow? And FTR, I have no clue as to what his stance is or is not.
Well, I will agree with the first two sentences, here, completely. And I am in no way supportive of a 'double standard', as well. But how do you know, say, the condition of the chapel, what repairs or upgrades it might need, projected enrollment, current growth trends, etc.? Seems awfully judgmental to me. BTW, SWBTS and Fuller are still the two largest seminaries in the world, and I believe SWBTS is still larger in full-time students, than any other, but I could be mistaken in this.
I don't know if this refers to your opinion that a "starting professor" is "overpaid" or "underpaid", and in fact, I don't even care. The Seminary is not compelled to hire anyone, and no one is compelled to teach, or not teach there, save maybe Professor Kouda. Again, this like the other points you have attempted to present, completely fails the '"So What?" test. The points are merely opinions, regardless of whose, and any one is free to have an opinion. But please don't present someone's personal opinions "ex-cathedra" for the rest of us, and necessarily expect others of us to automatically accept them. We already see more than enough of that, day-in; day-out!
Ed
Alcohol, Acts 29 and the SBC
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by gb93433, Mar 20, 2007.
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A starting professor with a doctorate is paid less than one half of what a starting high school teacher with a bachelor’s degree out of college. That is less than one-half of what a starting professor makes starting at a university. What kind of a testimony to non-Christians is that? So you are willing to pay Christian workers who teach things of eternal value much less than those who teach things that will not last? Should you live on more money and have a higher standard of living than them?
Sometime read the book of Amos and Haggai and see what God’s word says about such things.
So you think it is a great Christian testimony to the world that Christian workers are poorly paid and you really do not care? The Bible says a man is worthy of his hire and you think not? There was a time when seminary professors pastored churches but now the SBC does not want that. I wonder why?
What would you think if I told you that my dad who is not a Christian rents a place to a retired pastor who can hardly afford anything. He practically gives the man the place rent free because he feels sorry for him. Then my dad points out how well his congregation has taken care of him. What kind of a testimony is that?
How would you like it if your employer gave you handouts and paid you with what was left over? That is how many treat Christian workers and pastors. -
Abortion is not illegal but it is wrong. -
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Investing in the lives of peope should be done on a daily basis where we work and live.
If the people are drinking beer I see no evidence that beer is served outside of the building in homes to reach people. I would assume they have a liquor license.
How is it not program driven when beer is served in a church building.
I have reached hundreds of people but very few inside of a church building. I have invited very few people to church until they become a Christian. I am more concerned with their soul and that they learn about Christ than getting them in a church building. -
Mt. 4:19, "Follow me and I will make you fishers of men."
Too many churches spend loads of money on programs and buildings when there are many college students winning people to Christ and discipling them on a poverty income. -
SBCPreacher Active MemberSite Supporter
Hey, GB93433, if it's not asking to much, would you mind answering my earlier question, "Are you a Southern Baptist? I just want to know if the rocks you are throwing are coming from the outside or the inside."
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Okay....enough is enough, you have clearly not even read the article. You are acting pretty bitter at something....THEY AREN'T SERVING BEER IN THE CHURCH! What is wrong with you??!! For someone who has such a huge deal you have construed the facts more times than I've ever seen! You need to take a break and stop trying to prove your point (which has no basis) and give your fingers a break. Oh yeah, try actually READING the article which you have given so much misinformation about. DO US A FAVOR AND STOP TYPING ABOUT THIS. -
except for that one little peice of evidence called the ARTICLE YOU POSTED that says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about them serving beer in the church building, or even serving it at all. They go to a local pub to these community discussion groups. Besides that evidence...yeah, there is no evidence. (PLEASE IMAGINE LARGE AMOUNTS OF SARCASM AS YOU READ THIS) -
What would you call the statements, "This isn’t just a brew pub, it’s a church,” NBC reporter Jennifer London said, describing the room where the meeting is held. The “church” in reality is the Schlafly Bottleworks where The Journey reaches out to younger adults who might not consider going to a traditional church setting."?
Isn't the church where God's people meet? Isn't the church meeting at a pub?
"The alcohol issue goes straight to the top at Acts 29, whose president, Mark Driscoll -- who is pastor of the Seattle-area Mars Hill Church -- wrote in his book, “Radical Reformission,” that abstinence from alcohol is a sin."
"According to information published on the church’s website, Mars Hill sponsored a New Year’s Eve party that included a champagne bar. Mars Hill’s website also advertises “beer-brewing lessons ... whenever a large group of (Mars Hill) men get together.”
Doesn't the church sponsor "beer-brewing lessons"? -
SBCPreacher Active MemberSite Supporter
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Ed -
Does having a pedigree change the truth? -
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SBCPreacher Active MemberSite Supporter
You know. it's real easy to sit on the sidelines and throw rocks. That's all some people do. But, if you want to affect some kind of change, here's a couple of suggestions.
1. Try going first to Dr. Patterson yourself and find out what the truth is.
2. Try going to the leaders of this Acts 29 thing yourself and find out what the truth is.
It's easy to sit back and read what someone else says about someone and assume you're reading the truth. -
Ed -
Lots of people in the SBC care about pedigree. They talk about it fairly openly among the leaders. I have stood right there and listened to them talk about it. Try and get a job as a leader in the SBC without a SBC pedigree.
Is your care only limited to your denomination and the people you know directly? Do you not care about what is happening in regard to gays pastoring churches? Do you not care about those who call themselves Christians and live like the world? That kind of living is a black mark on those who live like Christ. Those were the only kind of people Jesus condemned. When I lived in Ft. Worth when Dr. Dilday was fired and the trustees lied, my mailman whom I had been getting to know and share my faith with knew about the incident before I did. He knew Dilday personally and saw the liars exposed. The issue of me being a Southern Baptist completely changed his view of Southern Baptists and me as well. Even though he liked me I could tell that what I said did not have as much impact because he knew I was a Southern Baptist.
Those who remain silent in the church and stand for nothing allow unrighteousness to prevail.
Asking Patterson is much like asking a man for the the truth before an investigation is done.
Have you read the following information at http://www.paigepatterson.info/askdrp.cfm ?
“Thank you for coming to the Official Website for Paige Patterson! Due to the number of requests we are not taking anymore questions at this time. Please check back for the answers to previously submitted questions.”
That posting has been there for as long as I can remember.
Christianity is one sided too. Are you saying the prophets in the OT wasted their time?
When the state workers of AZ were told by several pastors about the BFA they sided with the BFA. And reported to the people present at the state meeting that year that everything was okay and were somewhat efefctive at silencing their critics. That is until the BFA was investigated and shut down. The state people had simply asked the BFA about their critics and did not listen to the pastors who voiced criticism. The crooks assured them that everything was okay. People who have nothing to hide welcome the truth. They do not need to speak. The truth speaks for them. They welcome an investigation deep down they know the truth.
When Klouda was fired and Patterson was questioned, his comments were zero. If he thought that what he did was right and ethical why did a trustee speak rather than Patterson? Why leave that to someone else when he should have stepped up to the plate? That is what leaders do.
Who is listening to the truth about the SBC right now? Many of the people who have said something have eventually voted with their feet. When talking with pastors outside of the SBC they do not know much about what is going on but they do know that it is not good.
The public schools have open books why should an organization who should have a higher standard of God’s standard do at least the same thing. If you went to a public school you could find out the salary of every employee. Many of the churches of the leaders in the SBC do not disclose the pastor’s salary. Anyone in ministry knows why. If you contacted the SBC could find out what salary Patterson draws?
I would challenge you to contact Patterson and ask him for full disclosure of his salary and expenditures covered by the SBC. Then tell us what his response is. -
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your credibly has already slipped, no matter how nice you form your thoughts and sentences.
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