I forgot the other usage of parousia in Paul's epistles:
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
Look at the context, notably v. 22: "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." The resurrection of the dead will not be a process (a presence), just as the sin of Adam was not a process, but an event.
All There Is About Parousia
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by John of Japan, Nov 13, 2017.
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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prophecy70 Active Member
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HankD -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
The translators of the LXX knew about figures of speech. Ulfilas the Bible translator and missionary to the Goths in the 4th century knew about them. Jerome, the translator of the Vulgate, knew about them. The unknown translators of the Peshitta knew about them. Luther knew about them when he translated the German Bible. The KJV translators knew about them. I know about them and take them into account in my role as lead translator of the Lifeline Japanese NT.
if someone doesn't understand figures of speech, I can guarantee they don't know languages. Ethelbert Bullinger was brilliant in languages, and therefore was able to write a comprehensive book about figures of speech in the Bible. -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
But enough about this. Please don't derail the thread. -
prophecy70 Active Member
Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Yeah that already happened, in AD 70.
But alright, :Whistling I wont say anymore on that.
The thread is yours captain. -
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prophecy70 Active Member
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HankD -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Mt 24:34
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, until all these things be accomplished. Mk 13:30
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lk 21:32
When You See Jerusalem Surrounded..... -
HankD -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Thank you for the commercial, gentlemen. Now back to the thread. Did you notice my statements about parousia in the Olivet Discourse? Look at post #44. The word occurs 4 times in Matt. 24, and I contend that every single time must be a physical coming, not a presence.
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From Matthew:
28 Verily I say unto you, there are some of them that stand here, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Mt 16
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Mt 24
From Mark:
1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There are some here of them that stand by, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God come with power. Mk 9
30 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, until all these things be accomplished. Mk 13
From Luke:
27 But I tell you of a truth, There are some of them that stand here, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God. Lk 9
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lk 21 -
HankD -
21 Peter therefore seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? Follow thou me. Jn 21
It'd be really neat to talk to him. -
prophecy70 Active Member
"Besides these [signs], a few days after that feast, on the one- and-twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,] a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared; I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armour were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities. Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the] temple, as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence" (Jewish Wars, VI-V-3).
Tacitus
"13. Prodigies had occurred, but their expiation by the offering of victims or solemn vows is held to be unlawful by a nation which is the slave of superstition and the enemy of true beliefs. In the sky appeared a vision of armies in conflict, of glittering armour. A sudden lightning flash from the clouds lit up the Temple. The doors of the holy place abruptly opened, a superhuman voice was heard to declare that the gods were leaving it, and in the same instant came the rushing tumult of their departure. Few people placed a sinister interpretation upon this. The majority were convinced that the ancient scriptures of their priests alluded to the present as the very time when the Orient would triumph and from Judaea would go forth men destined to rule the world." (Histories, Book 5, v. 13).
Eusebius of Caesarea
"For before the setting of the sun chariots and armed troops were seen throughout the whole region in mid-air, wheeling through the clouds and encircling the cities" (Eusebius' Ecclesiastical History, Book 3, Ch. 8).
When these 1st century Jews asked these questions, they didn't understand Jesus was leaving, so how could they have asked about a coming back? They were asking about the end of OC Judaism and the beginning of Christ's kingdom. -
prophecy70 Active Member
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
But in Matt. 24, as I have shown, Christ prophesied His own literal coming. As has been pointed out on this thread and many others, preterists cannot point to a single historical statement or record to the effect that the Christians of AD 70 observed Christ coming in any way, shape or form. So the judgment carried out providentially by Titus and his army in no way fulfill the parousia statements of the Olivet Discourse. -
prophecy70 Active Member
Thats based on your preconceived idea of this passage.
Well in the future when it happens hopefully the Jewish people, for the lack of vehicles, can flee to the mountains from sitting on the flat top roofs, praying its not a sabbath day.
All these modern day armies from Hanks picture wouldn't see people fleeing?
I want to know if this is future, why are these armies surrounding Jerusalem? who are they going to war with? Isn't "nicolae carpathia" already sitting in this rebuilt temple?
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