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Featured Altar Calls and Sinners Prayer

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Salty, Mar 11, 2021.

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  1. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Fully disagree!!!!! Especially the word "MUST" Some may not fully understand - and they do need to come and seek counsel.
     
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  2. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    They are saved or they would not believe. They also included the gospel of the kingdom, totally rejected and exchanged for Pharisaic Pre-Millennialism today. And taught to repent and be baptized (IN JESUS' NAME) also rejected for the Catholic version.
     
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I do believe we are to preach about repentance and baptism, without neglecting the gospel of Christ.

    But I also believe we can make appeals (as Paul did) for individuals to be reconciled with God and we can set aside time to explain the gospel one on one (as Philip did). And we can take the time to answer questions, like Jesus did. The idea that we plead for people to be reconciled to God is in Scripture.
     
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  4. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    It looks like we have to agree to disagree

    and we will have to agree on one other thing
    If I come to your church, I will not complain that you don't have an invitation time

    and when you visit our church - do not interrupt our service during the invitation

     
  5. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    I think saved people are more confused about their experience when most Pastors try to explain it to them. Things never lined up for me according to what they said. I had to learn the gospel for myself over time until It finally hit home. You need to use the scripture model and leave the confusion behind.
     
  6. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Plead with those already saved to save themselves by works?
     
  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I do not think when Paul said we are to plead with them that he meant to save themselves by works.
     
  8. xlsdraw

    xlsdraw Active Member

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    And it's been this way for generations.
     
  9. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Paul had hope for all but knew they were under God's wrath.
     
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  10. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    The only thing about an Altar Call and Sinner's Prayer that bothers me is when they go out of their way to make it TOO EASY. Like when everyone closes their eyes (so nobody will see you) and anyone that wants to be saved just needs to quietly raise your hand (and remain anonymous) and everyone in the whole church will say the "sinners prayer" together so no one needs to feel embarrassed.

    “For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father's, and of the holy angels." [Luke 9:26]
     
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  11. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    "I believe that it is a great help in bringing people to decision when Mr. Moody asks those to stand up who wish to be prayed for. Anything that tends to separate you from the ungodly around you is good for you. Now, if you have given yourselves to Christ, tell it out, for, after our Lord takes you Home, you cannot go back to the world! When Caesar landed on a certain shore, he burned the boats behind him so that his men might know that they must conquer or perish. I advise you to do likewise"
    —Charles Spurgeon, sermon he preached on his 50th birthday
     
    #51 Jerome, Mar 15, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2021
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  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Shouldn't we?
     
  13. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Good point to bring up!
    I dont have a problem with asking people to raise their hands
    BUT - as a pastor, I would NEVER ask the entire congregation to repeat a "sinners" prayer.
     
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  14. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    "Oh, that the unconverted among you may be moved to pray. Before you leave this place, breathe an earnest prayer to God, saying, 'God be merciful to me a sinner. Lord, I need to be saved. Save me. I call upon thy name.' Join with me in prayer at this moment, I entreat you. Join with me while I put words into your mouths, and speak them on your behalf—'Lord, I am guilty. I deserve thy wrath. Lord I cannot save myself. Lord, I would have a new heart and a right spirit, but what can I do? Lord, I can do nothing, come and work in me to will and to do of thy good pleasure.
    'Thou alone hast power, I know,
    To save a wretch like me;
    To whom, or whither should I go
    If I should turn from thee?'
    But I now do from my very soul call upon thy name. Trembling, yet believing, I cast myself wholly upon thee, O Lord. I trust the blood and righteousness of thy dear Son; I trust thy mercy, and thy love, and thy power, as they are revealed in him. I dare to lay hold upon this word of thine, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Lord, save me tonight, for Jesus' sake. Amen'."
    ---Charles Spurgeon, "A Free Grace Promise" (1888)
     
  15. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    (a) Baptist churches don't have altars. When I was a little kid, I thought that a small series of steps was an altar, since that's where everyone went during the altar call. In Sunday School, I wondered why they were sacrificing animals on the steps.

    In mid-elementary school, I was embarrassingly "corrected" by a Sunday School teacher who informed me that the Lord's Supper table was the "altar" because that's where the bread and the wine were placed that represents the body of Jesus. A few months later, the pastor visited the class to tell us how bad "Catholics" are and mentioned that they believe they are sacrificing Jesus on the altar every Sunday. I asked how that was different from what we did on our "altar" and was sharply corrected that there were no altars in a Baptist Church. We were above all of that nonsense. So I asked why did he call people to come to the altar. "It's a figure of speech! It's the altar of our hearts." Then he grumbled about how I needed to learn respect. I learned that morning not to ask questions in church because nothing made sense and adults got angry about simple questions.

    On to what I believe was the intended subject... Public calls for decision were part of the techniques developed in the age of revivalism to nail down a time and place where decisions were made for Christ. The good part about it is that it can be the first part of the testimony of faith in Christ where a person can seek serious prayer and wise counsel about the call of Jesus. The bad has many parts, including overt and dishonest manipulation, inadequate counseling in the rush to make an announcement of conversion before the church, a confusion in the allegedly penitent one receiving salvation by walking to the front of the congregation and requesting baptism. I have seen or experienced all of these things personally, or with close friends and family.

    I went forward at the request of a friend who was afraid to walk forward on his own. I had no intention of making a commitment of any sort, although I first heard the gospel in a way that made sense that night. My friend had fallen for the "raise your hand if you want me to pray for you" ploy by the evangelist, and the evangelist directly called for him to come down the aisle. I was going to walk back to my seat, but was corralled by a "counselor" and about 18 guys were pulled off to a side room. The lone counselor asked, "How many of you have been baptized?" Most of the teen boys had. He said, "You are here for rededication. Pray this prayer." The prayer was all about trying harder to be good, which I now know is false teaching. When they finished, he dismissed them. To the two or three of us remaining, he said, "You are here to be saved. Repeat this prayer after me." He started praying and waited for us to repeat. I hesitated, then decided I would pray until I disagreed with something. I always took prayer very seriously, so I wasn't going to simply repeat things I didn't believe. I don't recall specifically what we prayed, but it seemed to along with the sermon I had heard that made the gospel make sense in an immediate way, not just life insurance for when we die. The counselor finished, gave us each a Jack Chick tract (I got "Kings of the East" aka "Will the Yellow Race Rule the World?")* and sent us on our way without another word.

    In spite of all of the nonsense, lack of counseling, and the racist tract, God heard my sincere and barely literate prayer and began a noticeable work in me. I noticed things started changing immediately, and I began to hunger to know the Bible. So people can be saved by praying something like a "sinner's prayer" that helps them put into words what they really want. But I have no respect for a "sinner's prayer" used like a magic incantation, or telling people they are "saved" just because they repeated it.
     
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  16. Jesus Saves!

    Jesus Saves! Active Member

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    By personal experience, the Holy Ghost enlightened me many times in life and gave the altar call to me. An altar being a place we die out to sin and give our hearts to the Lord by faith. Not necessarily a raised platform. But each time he called me, the Holy Spirit was drawing me out from the pews. I have said the sinners prayer with no change. I confessed I was saved once after coming to the altar under conviction for my sins after the preacher asked did I get saved. I said yes, but it didn’t take long to figure out I was the same old sinner still in need of a Saviour because I held on to sin in my life. When we hold on to things in our life that are sinful, it stands between us and the Lord. After being in service many more times, the Lord’s spirit would still convict me as a dirty rotten sinner. Later in life I was singing with the choir near the piano before the preacher had preached, and God’s Spirit began to call and draw me. I said in myself “Lord now is not the right time”. The drawing power began to get lighter and lighter, a great fear came over me and I realized I may never get such an invitation for the rest of my life. In my heart I was saying wait just a moment Lord, I’m coming to you. I quit singing and took a few steps and fell on the altar and gave it all to Jesus fully trusty in him for the first time. The burden of sin lifted from me and I’ve never felt that old lost feeling anymore. Praise the Lord! The Spirit drew me to the Lord and I believed with all y heart. No talking to preacher or saying a sinners prayer just repentance and faith in Christ. This is how I got saved.
     
  17. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    There are many points of consideration in this pdf.
    I believe it balances the desire to present the gospel and see sinners drawn savingly to Jesus.

    http://www.sgbcsv.org/literature/WhyWeDoNotUseTheInvitationalSystem.pdf
    Why We Do Not Use The Invitational System
    W. R. Downing, Pastor, Sovereign Grace Baptist Church of Silicon Valley
    INTRODUCTION
    The Invitational System Defined and Described Personal Experience
    A Word of Clarification: Sinners Invited to Christ, Not to The Front
    I. THE HISTORY OF THE INVITATIONAL SYSTEM The Beginnings: The Kentucky Frontier Revivals The Advent Of Charles G. Finney and The “New Measures”
    II. THE UNSCRIPTURAL NATURE OF THE INVITATIONAL SYSTEM The Invitational System: No Scriptural Precedent
    Charles G. Finney and His Defense of The “New Measures” Baptism and The Anxious Seat
    Billy Graham and His Defense of The Invitational System The Effects and Legacy of Charles G. Finney Sola Scriptura: The Deciding Issue
    III. THE PSYCHOLOGICAL NATURE OF THE INVITATIONAL SYSTEM Unregenerate Man Cannot Rise Above The Psychological Regeneration and Conversion
    Faith and Regeneration: Salvation by Grace or by Works?
    IV. THE UTILITARIAN NATURE OF THE INVITATIONAL SYSTEM The Invitational System: An Alleged Answer for Every Issue Acting Scripturally
    V. THE SACRAMENTAL NATURE OF THE INVITATIONAL SYSTEM Sacrament and Sacrosanct: The Altar Evangelical Churches with Altars? Public, Place, Purpose, Posture and Performance?
    VI. THE SACERDOTAL NATURE OF THE INVITATIONAL SYSTEM What is Sacerdotalism? Preacher or Priest? Priest or Psychologist?
    VII. THE HARMFUL NATURE OF THE INVITATIONAL SYSTEM Doctrine, Practice and an Unscriptural Methodology A Hybrid Approach to Evangelism Spurious Conversions “First–Time Decisions” and Rededication An Unscriptural Assurance CONCLUSION
    BIBILIOGRAPHY
    INTRODUCTION
    This paper addresses the use of the invitational system. While we do not doubt the sincerity and earnest love for Christ, the souls of men and the good of God’s people on the part of those who utilize such methods, yet we lovingly disagree with them on scriptural grounds. While we, for good and necessary biblical and doctrinal reasons, repudiate the system, we love our Christian brethren and seek the unity which is described in Psalm 133. May the Lord use this paper to cause our brothers in Christ and in the ministry to reconsider and reevaluate their evangelistic methodology, if they resort to such methods. Unscriptural methods, unless they are utterly incoherent, derive from unscriptural tradition which in turn derives from unscriptural doctrine.
     
    #57 Iconoclast, Mar 15, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2021
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  18. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Pt2.
    The Invitational System Defined and Described
    The invitational system, as practiced in the past two centuries, is a relatively recent innovation, absolutely unknown for over 1800 years. That prior time included eras of the greatest revivals and spiritual awakenings ever witnessed in Christian history when untold thousands were converted and the moral climate of countries and societies were transformed by the power of the gospel.
    This system is inclusive of several well–established entities, such as the “altar call,” the “anxious seat,” the “mourner’s bench,” the “call for decisions,”1 “rededication,” and the idea that evangelistic results can be immediately known with a given degree of certainty by physical movement and emotional demonstration. This idea of “coming forward” at the conclusion of a religious service serves a utilitarian purpose of being the proper response to almost any religious concern. This “Old Time Religion” is not so old as not to be a relatively new and essential departure from the biblical and historic faith which experienced times of great blessing without such for over 1800 years.
    This system has become so entrenched in modern Evangelical Christianity that “coming forward” during “the invitation” is often held to be synonymous with coming to Christ.2 This has resulted in what some have termed “decisional regeneration.” 3
    “Decisional regeneration does not bring men to Christ any more than does baptismal regeneration. It may be true that some are converted under such preaching, but this is in spite of the false methods used, not because of them. The Bible is clear in its declaration that only by the Spirit of God can men be “born again.” True repentance and saving faith come as the result of the new birth and are never the cause of the great change.”4
    One, however, may come to the “altar” and never find Christ. Indeed, this very action may prove to be a hindrance to true conversion. Spurious conversions are numerous:
    There is often a return to “the altar” for a renewed sense of religious feeling. “The consequent peace…is mistaken for spiritual joy. Self–love, of course, prompts a spurious gratitude and praise for it; and causes the heart to love the scenes, the means and the companions of its delicious intoxication. And now we have the “stony ground hearers” reproduced (Matt. 13:20–21). The dead heart, having no true vitality to generate spiritual emotion from within, sinks into a chill and dreary vacuity when alone; and thus it is all the
    1 Cf. “The Origin of the Call for Decisions,” Albert B. Dodd, a reprint of the 1847 article from the Princeton Review. The Banner of Truth Magazine, December, 1963, pp. 9–15.
    2 Billy Graham in the London Crusade of 1966, “Don’t let distance keep you from Christ. It’s a long way, but Christ went all the way to the cross because he loved you. Certainly you can come these few steps and give your life to him.” Quoted by Iain Murray, The Invitation System. Edinburgh: The Banner of Truth Trust, 1973, p. 5.
    “You ask me why I am asking you to come forward? It is an act of your will in receiving Christ as Savior,” Billy Graham, God in the Garden, a record of the Madison Square Garden Billy Graham Crusade.
    3 Harold J. Ockenga, “Some Reformed theologians…teach that regeneration by the Holy Spirit precedes conversion. The evangelical position is that regeneration is conditioned upon repentance, confession and faith.” Quoted by Iain Murray, The Invitation System, p. 18.
    16 pp. 4 James E. Adams, Decisional Regeneration. Canton, GA: Free Grace Publications, 1983
     
  19. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Pt3
    more prone, for a while, to crave a return to the place and the scenes where the exhilarating appliances were enjoyed.”5
    “I shall fail at this time in setting forth the gospel if I shall lead anybody to think that he can get salvation by going to the church or to the meeting–house or going to a minister, or going into an enquiry room, or going to a penitent form. No, we are to go nowhere but to Jesus. You, as you are, are to come to Christ as he is, and the promise is that on your coming to him he will give you rest….You see there are two persons. Let everybody else vanish, and let those two be left alone, to transact heavenly business with each other.”6
    The “altar call” is used for various purposes. Some are called forward for salvation, for baptism, for “rededication,” for the call for some kind of religious service or ministry, or for some other allegedly spiritual reason or concern, such as praying for a person or a given religious situation or blessing, for freedom from some kind of addiction. But coming to the “old fashion altar” and coming to Christ for any reason are two entirely different things— and these must never be confused.
    Personal Experience
    This writer was reared in such a religious environment and in his early days as a professing believer “went forward” for various reasons both before and after his conversion. Having endured hundreds of “altar calls” over many years as a child, a youth, a Bible College student and as a pastor, he is somewhat qualified to comment on the unscriptural nature of this system. Once he learned of its unscriptural character, its history of development and personally witnessed the damage it has caused, he both ceased such activity and has taken an active stand against this unscriptural practice.
    A Word of Clarification: Sinners Invited to Christ, Not to The Front
    A word of clarification is necessary. While opposing the invitational system, we do not oppose inviting sinners to Christ, yea, urging them to Christ during the preaching. We firmly declare the free offer of the gospel to any and all men without exception (Matt. 11:28–30; Jn. 3:16; Acts 2:36–39; 17:30–31; 1 Tim. 2:1–4). What we do oppose is the idea that inviting sinners to come to the front of a church building is identical with or might be confused with inviting them to Christ. We would agree with C. H. Spurgeon, who stated:
    “Oh, that you would trust in the Lord Jesus!…Did I hear you say, ‘I will pray about it?’ Better trust at once. Pray as much as you like after you have trusted, but what is the good of unbelieving prayers? ‘I will talk with a godly man after the service.’ I charge you first trust in Jesus… ‘I should like to go into the enquiry room.’ I dare say you would, but we are not willing to pander to popular superstition. We fear that in those rooms men are warmed into a fictitious confidence. Very few of the supposed converts of enquiry rooms turn out well. Go to your God at once, even where you are now. Cast yourself on Christ, now, at once; ere you stir an inch! In God’s name I charge you, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ…!”7
    5 Robert L. Dabney, Discussions Theological and Evangelical. Edinburgh: Banner of Truth Trust, 1967 reprint. Vol. I, p. 564.
    6 C. H. Spurgeon, The Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit Pasadena, TX: Pilgrim Publications,
     
  20. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Pt4
    We are also opposed to the unscriptural practice of urging believers to the front or “altar” for any given alleged spiritual purpose or concern.
    I THE HISTORY OF THE INVITATIONAL SYSTEM
    The Beginnings: The Kentucky Frontier Revivals
    The idea of inviting or urging sinners or others to the front of a church building or to a designated place for an alleged spiritual reason is a relatively recent innovation in the history of Christianity. The earliest examples of what has become known as the “invitation system” can be traced to the Kentucky Frontier Revivals of the era 1798–1806 and the Methodist camp meetings. About l793 revivals broke out in various parts of these United States and spread along the western border of the American frontier. As with most revivals, there were physical demonstrations such as ecstasies, “jerks,” swooning, fainting or falling down. The Presbyterians and Baptists, both being strongly Calvinistic and more reverent, sought to discourage such emotional extremes in their meetings, but the Methodists began to promote such. These “fallings” were seen to be the immediate work of the Spirit and identified those who were “saved.” The Methodists desired to have an immediate counting of their “converts” by such means, as they were defensive of their Arminian theology, especially in the context of the prevailing Calvinism.8 In the chaos of such meetings, it was soon determined that it was more orderly to have people “come to the altar” to be counseled, prayed for and counted. In their frontier camp meetings, marked by emotional extremes, and lasting for days, a certain part of ground was marked out as “the altar” for this purpose. This seems to have had its origin in their Methodist Episcopal background, in which the front of the church building was designated as “the altar,” the place where the sacraments were dispensed by an Episcopal priest.
    This was an altogether new innovation. George Whitefield the Calvinist, John Wesley the Arminian, and the first Methodist preachers never resorted to such, not even in counting converts. As itinerate evangelists, they preached and left the results to God. They did note in their diaries that many were often greatly affected with weeping, fell down under deep conviction, and at times emotionalism broke through in their meetings, but such outbursts were neither promoted nor encouraged. Our Baptist forefathers, some of the most evangelistic preachers in the Colonies and the early years of our Republic, neither knew of nor used the invitational system.
    The Advent of Charles G. Finney and The “New Measures”
    Charles G. Finney, a lawyer, became a Presbyterian evangelist in the 1820s almost immediately upon his conversion, and took the “altar call,” “anxious seat” and “mourner’s bench” from the Methodists, combined it with his Pelagian doctrine or “New Haven
    8 Calvinistic theology was preeminent during this era, and no one thought that Arminianism would ever produce such converts as the strong Calvinistic gospel preaching. “Before 1800, as Isaac Backus knew, any argument that Arminianism was more effective in evangelism than Calvinism would have been regarded as absurd.” Iain Murray, Revival and Revivalism. Edinburgh: Banner of Truth Trust, 1994, p. 18
     
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