In Revelation 11 and 12 we see described the 1260 years of dark ages that would come to the christian church after the days of John the revelator.
In Rev 12 we see that the Church of God is pictured as existing in both Old and New Testament -- such that the incarnation of Christ comes from the Church of God pre-cross, in what we might call the O.T.
But as we see in Rev 12 - some time after Christ is taken up into heaven - the church is severely persecuted -- and specifically a 1260 year period of persecution is identified not only in Rev 11 but also in Revelation 12 and in Revelation 13.
But in Revelation 13 we are told that immediately after the dark ages ends (so after 1798 when the Pope is taken captive by France) a world power will arise having two horns as a lamb.
The symbol of a lamb identifies that new world power as a good one. The lamb symbol in the book of Revelation is always a good element in the picture being described.
Some have observed that America's lamb-like founding features are the Christian principles of religious liberty found in Protestantism as well as the departure from dictatorship/monarchy and acceptance instead of a republic -- republican form of government.
Hopefully we can retain those features a little while longer.
in Christ,
Bob
America in Bible Prophecy
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by BobRyan, Oct 20, 2009.
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IMO, it's a crock. Revelation it not a book of predictions. Just about every prediction claim using Revelation as its source has turned out to be incorrect.
We should be preaching the first coming. Let the second coming worry about itself. -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
Sorry the US is not in the book of revelation. You took some work trying to get there but it doesn't make the cut.
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Paul says in Philipian 3 that we "wait EAGERLY" for that 2nd coming.
Paul says in Romans 8 that we "groan" with our waiting and longing for the resurrection at the coming of Christ. He repeats this in 2Cor 5:1-3 as being our great "longing".
Christ said "Let not your heart be troubled" in John 14 and then goes into great detail about his promised return.
In Rev 19 the much predicted 2nd coming event is seen.
In Rev 20 the much predicted Great White throne jugment and lake of fire is seen.
In Rev 21 the much predicted New Heavens and New earth is detailed in chapter-length detail.
In Rev 14 - the end of the world - the reaping of the saints, the judgment of the wicked is detailed.
In Matt 24 another entire chapter dedicated to the future events culminating in the 2nd coming with warning after warning by Christ not to be deceived. He includes the warning that just as we know to read the signs of nature pointing toward spring - so we are to know the signs of the time pointing to the coming of Christ "know that it is at the door".
Hence the book of Revelation.
And as Paul states in 2Tim 3:16 "ALL scripture is given by inspiration from God and IS profitable for doctrine".
I am going with the Bible on this one my friends.
in Christ,
Bob -
I think Revelation is a prediction of the future and uses elements from the past that foreshadow it as well (where it ties in with Daniel, for example).
I think as believers, we are to look forward with anticipation to the 2nd coming; this is stated throughout the NT in many places. It is how the Bible ends: Come quickly, Lord Jesus. The longer I am a Christian, the more I eagerly anticipate the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.
However, I do not think the U.S. is in the book of Revelation; at least not explicitly. -
A "lamb like" bloody civil war against a Christian sovereign?
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That 1260 time period ended in 1798 and is called prophetically 1260 days, 42 months, and also "Time Times and Half a Time" in the Bible (3.5 prophetic years of years). Both John and Daniel use the same day for a year principle that we find in Daniel 9 with the 70 weeks (490 years). Dan 9's day for year is a point where almost all denominations agree as it predicts the first coming of Christ.
2. Rev 13 points out that when that is over - a new world wide power will arise "out of the earth". In Rev 17 seas are used as a symbol for many cultures nations and peoples. In Rev 13 the new nation that arises to super-power status arises out of a non-sea, a relatively empty region as compared to the warring nations of Europe and the middle east - the way America came into being.
3. The Rev 13 power -- becomes a world wide power, but it arises with two lamb-like horns. Good qualities that some have attributed to Christian Protestant principles of freedom of religion and the 2nd horn being a republic form of government such as we find in America.
in Christ,
Bob -
and so on and so on. Sounds like you're misapplying scripture in several places out of some odd preoccupation with the end times. If you truly believe that the end is near, then feel free to cash out your retirement funds and blow it all. I myself will continue to plan for my retirement, and plan on dying an old man in my bed. -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
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in 1Thess 5 Paul argues that many are completely taken by surprise in the end of time.
In 2Thess 2 Paul argues that without a love of the truth (i.e. always wanting more and always accepting rather than rejecting what you already have) people perish at the end of time.
Truths we probably all agree with - but then do not always take the time to think through the implications of those truths.
Which brings up an interesting question -- "how much of the Bible do you suppose is safe to ignore?"
in Christ,
Bob -
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
I don't think Revelation is trying to predict in Nostrodamus fashion what is going to happen. To understand Apocalyptic literature you have to understand the genra. (spelling) Having read available 1st century literature I've noted that literature of this type it explains current events in a dramatic fashion. Political uphevals are related to by Catastrophies in natures such as stars falling from the sky etc... What is known of the last days is clear. Jesus comes again. He will judge the living and the dead. Jesus wins and Justice is despenced to all creation to include angels. There is a place for us in the following life and the trials of this one are over. It is also clear in parables and all teachings of Jesus and the Apostles that no one knows when all this will happen so be ready at all times. In otherwords don't waste time. Transform yourself into Jesus likeness and hold on to the faith. That is the essense of Revelation. Not rapture, anti christ, one world government, etc... So no scripture is ignored but taken in context with the intent of it.
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I think many passages refer to the 2nd coming of Christ - some of which Bob Ryan pointed out. We are to eagerly expect His coming.
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Except that several of the passages he pointed out are not a reference to the second coming. He's misapplying them as such.
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
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The problem, Marcia, is that militant rapture proponents tend to be zealous in their view, to the point of accusing those who do not concur with their interpretation as not believeing the bible. This is not most people who believe in the rapture, but it is a vocal many.
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