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America trails most of the rest of the developed world.

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by Benjamin, Mar 25, 2020.

  1. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    "America was less prepared for a pandemic than countries with universal health systems."

    "There is a real concern that Americans, with a high uninsured rate and high out-of-pocket costs compared to the rest of the world, won’t seek care because of the costs. Before the crisis even began, the United States had fewer doctors and fewer hospital beds per capita than most other developed countries."

    "People need to go to the doctor and get checked if they have Covid-19 symptoms, yet Americans may avoid medical care, even for serious conditions, because of the costs."

    "By any of these metrics on pandemic preparedness, America trails most of the rest of the developed world."

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...onavirus-covid-19-us-cases-health-care-system

    On the contrary, I believe our numbers will be among the best in the world - without socialized medicine.
     
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  2. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean by among the best in the world? What numbers will you use to determine that?
     
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  3. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    Death rate per cases.
     
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  4. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Communist Cuba has the best medical system in the world according to Michael Moore. Their world renown hospitals and clinics are better than Mayos Clinic or Cleveland Clinic or Johns Hopkins. Asked where he wanted to go for cancer treatment, the President of Venezuela said Havana.
     
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  5. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    Four paragraphs making one point. Then your last paragraph simply denying your own evidence. Cognitive dissonance.
     
  6. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    I wish it were not so, but I think you are going to be disappointed. Deaths will always lag the case numbers. These deaths you are seeing today are from cases infected and possibly identified 1-2 weeks ago. So a better approximation of the confirmed death rate while things are happening is today’s deaths divided by cases from 2 weeks ago. Because the cases since then haven’t finished their disease yet and we don’t know if they will die or not.

    Also hospitals are getting overwhelmed in NY and that seems to be what determines the death rate. If you don’t get hospitals overwhelmed, you can keep the death rate around or less than 1%. Once the hospitals get overwhelmed, you are looking at 3-5% minimum.

    By tomorrow the US will have more confirmed cases than China. Yes both have lots more unconfirmed cases than reported. Where as almost all of China’s cases have recovered, the US cases are just starting their disease progression. And there are already 1000 confirmed deaths in the US.

    I’m not stating these things because I want it to be this bad in the US. I want people to see how bad it is so they can take the necessary actions to keep it from getting worse where they are. The type of health system is irrelevant. People need to social distance and cities/regions/states need to close their borders and severely restrict travel. This can be done in any health system. That is what will save lives and keep the situation in NY from repeating itself around the country.
     
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  7. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Wow, everyone sure can trust the statistics of the Chinese commies! And the Russians, too. Nothing better than the word of a communist. Why, ole Bernie didn't get his millions by....
     
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  8. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    Tom, you seem to be lacking a little comprehension here. Let me break this down and spell it out for you. Note the quote marks around the sentences followed by the source. That would generally lead someone to concluded that I didn't make the arguments in the article, so you see it is pretty darn hard for me to have inconsistent thoughts with claims that aren't even mine. In fact, I didn't make an argument at all, ...yet, I simply wrote one sentence wherein I gave my subjective opinion which disagreed with the article's conclusions.

    Now, I understand how you thrive on trying to put down the U.S.A. and would naturally be in agreement with the title of the Op presenting a socialist view, and how I must have dashed your hopes at the end of my post with a display of my patriotic pride and confidence that we will do better than what the article argues and do that through a capitalist system of medical heath care for our country. But, ...sorry for your confusion...
     
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  9. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    Sorry for your snarkiness. Yes, I know that they were quotes. My point is that you offered no evidence for that last comment that you glibly stated.
     
  10. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    I would not be surprised to see the rate go up a bit at first, it has already gone from 1.2% to 1.4% but I believe the strength of the U.S.A. is going to grab this bull by the horns.
    Here, in our capitalist nation our private citizens with powerful manufacturing abilities are standing up and making a difference wherein the accommodations we need to care for people will be met far better than in other countries.
    We will see the makeshift hospitals rise and in this know how bad it is. I strongly disagree about the roots of the health system being irrelevant, our health system is driven by a capitalist free market and the power of that free market is about erupt to take of of its people.
     
  11. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    Again, arguments present evidence and I gave no argument but rather a subjective belief that the article's argument that our health system's abilities trail the rest of the developed world would be proven false. And, I assure you that stating my belief was neither thoughtless or insincere but simply concluded with confidence in the belief that our health system is up to the challenge because it is fueled by a free market which I further believe will prove superior rather than "trailing".

    P.S. if you knew they were quotes then why would think I was denying my "own evidence" and how could your "snarky" accusation of "cognitive dissonance" possibly apply as being an inconsistent thought since the other thoughts weren't mine?? [​IMG]
     
    #11 Benjamin, Mar 26, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
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  12. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Active Member
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    Some story line, new thread

    Seemingly, some of you cannot wait for the stats to go up
     
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  13. MartyF

    MartyF Well-Known Member

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    Vox is incompetent and has no clue about science or technology.

     
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  14. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Communist Cuba and Communist China working together have developed a new anti-viral drug to fight COVID-19, called IFNrec, short for Interferon Alpha-2B Recombinant. The major stumbling block is that the USA will not extend credit to the deadbeat Cubans who have not repaid a loan or a credit charge since 1959.

    "Cuba has mobilized its medical corps around the world to distribute a new "wonder drug" that officials there say is capable of treating the new coronavirus despite the United States' strict sanctions that continue to pressure the communist-run island.

    "The drug, called Interferon Alpha-2B Recombinant (IFNrec), is jointly developed by scientists from Cuba and China, where the coronavirus COVID-19 disease outbreak first emerged late last year. Already active in China since January, the Cuban Medical Brigades began deploying to dozens of nations, providing personnel and products such as its new anti-viral drug to battle the disease...."

    Cuba uses "wonder drug" to fight coronavirus around the world despite U.S. sanctions

    Meanwhile the bad orangeman is going to cause the deaths of almost 2 million Americans with his stupid policies:

    Trump’s Crazy Coronavirus Math Will Kill as Many as 1.8 Million Americans

    Trump’s Crazy Coronavirus Math Will Kill as Many as 1.8 Million Americans
     
  15. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    Interferon alpha-2B, recombinant.

    As in Intron-A which was patented in the US in 1986 and is now off patent and available in generics? Why does this cuban version matter?

    https://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/i/intron_a/intron_a_mg.pdf

    March 2020 - When do the INTRON A patents expire, and when will biosimilar INTRON A enter the market?
     
  16. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    I am just linking Cuban government information. Cuba is thought to have a better healthcare system than the USA.
     
  17. Use of Time

    Use of Time Well-Known Member
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    Why do you always find a way to shoehorn Cuba into seemingly every conversation? What is with this obsession with Cuba?
     
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  18. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace Well-Known Member
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    Seems relevant since one of the two possible dim candidates has NOTHING BUT PRAISE for virtually "all things Cuban"!:rolleyes:
     
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  19. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Oh, you just want to talk about Beverly Hills where you live? You know that Cuba has a better healthcare system than the USA. Now Cuba has announced that they have a drug to cure Covid-19 and people are saying that Trump will cause the deaths of 1.8 million people in the USA alone so I really am agreeing with you. Don't you want the Cuban cure if you get sick, hmm? I didn't know that this bit of news was so complicated to understand. I thought that you would be happy to know that Cuba has a cure! Cuban doctors go all over the world but I think that the Orangeman is too racist to bring them here to help us in this crisis.
     
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  20. Wingman68

    Wingman68 Well-Known Member
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    Whenever there is a chance to bash the US, leftists rush to the forefront. Me first!!!
     
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