America trails most of the rest of the developed world.

Tilting at windmills. Have fun!

 

Cuba & China announced that they have the cure.

 

Green new deal has a lot of windmills, Sancho.

 

I understood his point. I wouldn't consider this cognitive dissonance.

 

Unlike most or perhaps all of you here, I have had surgery in an Asian country, Japan. I've also had surgery in the US as late as Dec. (Christmas Eve--ouch). My experience in the US was far better than the one in Japan, and Japan is probably the best country in Asia for medical skill and knowledge, only about ten years behind the US, it is said.

China is hugely behind the curve in medical skills and knowledge. Anyone who says anything different has forgotten--or never knew--that Asian doctors come to the US to train, not vice versa. My dermatologist in Japan had been trained in the US, as were other Japanese doctors I met. American medicine is the best in the world--no contest. Thousands of doctors in China were trained in America.

 

Agreed. For cognitive dissonance, read that deceptive, haphazard article. For clear, sound argument, or even valid evidence, one must go elsewhere.

 

All of my life I have said that the USA had the best medical system in the world. For a few years there people were saying that Canada was better until there were so many documented cases of shortages and long waits for even simple things. With Justin Trudeau, no one says that Canada is anything other than like the five train derailments they had a month or two ago.

That leaves Cuba, once the richest country in Latin America but now second only to North Korea in poverty. American communists have been saying for decades how good the Cuban system is. Bernie Sanders talks about Cuban literacy (it was always high) in that Castro boasted that Cuban prostitutes would be the most literate in the world. So Americans still believe that the Cuban medical system is world-class. Raul Castro has announced that Cuba and China have a cure for the Chinese virus. Cuban doctors are not trained in the USA and are sent worldwide in numbers while their paychecks are sent to Raul so they are not in it for the money.

 

Well said (no pun intended). And the notion that such premier healthcare can be made universally available defies all sound reasoning. Developing cutting-edge technology of any sort costs a lot of money. Those with money finance it in order to benefit, often by paying for the latest and greatest, or selling it to those who can afford it. Eventually, the latest-and-greatest becomes commonplace and much cheaper, as the technology envelope is pushed ever further out.

Healthcare could be treated differently, but only at the cost of losing that cutting edge and no longer pushing the envelope, putting everyone at the same current lower levels. It is a winning strategy for making everyone a loser in the end. And that's the good news part, as they may very well bankrupt the entire system in the process of applying their brilliantly ignorant strategy.

 

I have had extensive dental work done in the US, Mexico, and China. The best work that was done in my case in terms of comfort and lasting value was done in China. It was also much, much cheaper than in the US even though my tooth came from a printer. My experience in the US on two occasions was a bloody mess. Literally. Mexico was cheap also but my Mexican dentures proved not to be as good quality as in China.

I am sure some of you reading this will glibly say I am for the Chinese system. I am not. I am just speaking from my experience. I hate much of what China does. I also have no use for patriotism that does not take into account the whole picture. Quality AND cost. What good is better medical skills when it cannot be afforded?

 

I'm not questioning the quality of the US health system. Just that by the time the waves of cases have reached the health system, you have already lost. There is no health system in the world that can manage a sudden 10-100x increase in patient load. The battle against Covid19 happens on the streets and in the community. Our most effective weapons against it are not doctors, or hospitals, medications, ventilators or ICUs but people avoiding spreading it to each other by social distancing. That requires coordination and communication from the health authorities as to why everyone is making that economic and social sacrifice.

While we are past that point in NY and some other areas of the US now and the strategy there is about wartime survival to the next day, there are other areas of the US that still have time to make a difference to the case numbers that will be showing up in hospitals 2 weeks from now by taking actions today.

 

I had stomach surgery in China. I was the only Western patient. The surgeon was excellent. But yes, the way the hospital was run was under par.

I had eye surgery in Hong Kong. Which was a minor deal. But I think the level of care is top-notch. I haven't been to Singapore, but I would think it is superior.

 

Yes, these government programs where people make peanuts can seem much, much cheaper to Westerners. I hear India provides much cheaper items for its citizens also. Would you volunteer to reduce your own income and quality of life to the minimum in one of these countries?

 

Hi Tom. I too have have had excellent dental work done in China for one fifth the price of that in America. I went to Dental Doctor which is a chain. It may also be in South Korea. Dental Doctor was clean, modern and professional with wonderful charm. If I had gone to a hospital for my dental work I could have saved a lot more money, but I can't vouch for the cleanliness and orderliness.

 

Medical and dental vacations to far-flung regions of the world are becoming very popular. Depending on the procedure, the cost might be less than the price of the airline ticket.

 

What do you mean reduce income? I was paid more for teaching in China than I ever was in the US. Quality of life at the time was comparable. Xi has downgraded things.

BTW, I would not call China's system socialized medicine. It is pay to play. A student had a heart attack on our school basketball court. His friends had to first send money via WeChat before the ambulance would even start up the hill to our university. I have seen this process time and time again.

 

Hi Tim, are you still in China? I lasted 5 years before they said I was too old.

The dental place I went seemed pretty clean and modern. But it was weird in some ways. As I was being drilled a guy (I think a friend of the dentist) wandered in talking and gawking.

 

Perhaps you missed my question, but since you say it's all pay to play, and they won't move without money, that sort of makes the point anyway. A very brutal system indeed.

But for the record, my question was whether you would be satisfied with the minimum income there. Or are you trying to say you were making the bare minimum there?

 

Why ask that? Would you be satisfied with minimum income in the US? What does that have to do with the point? No, I was not making the minimum. Far from it.

 

Isn't it obvious? You brought it up, or at least partially, when you said "Quality AND cost." To fairly compare cost across the board, you must also compare income across the board, and general quality of life for that matter.

Who cares what an American can afford in China? The question is what all of the Chinese face there.

But your observation that they don't make a move without payment first said quite enough. What's the penalty for letting someone stroke out or bleed out while they wait?