1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

America trails most of the rest of the developed world.

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by Benjamin, Mar 25, 2020.

  1. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2004
    Messages:
    8,423
    Likes Received:
    1,160
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I wonder how many of these other "developed countries" have first class mobile hospital ships with 1,000 beds. We will have one docked in New York's harbor on Monday, stocked full of supplies..
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  2. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    22,050
    Likes Received:
    1,857
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The rich and the intellectuals want power over the common man. They hate giving the common man a Bill of Rights when they are so much smarter or so they think. Intellectuals always want dictatorships.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,496
    Likes Received:
    3,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    We cannot know this yet. If you look at the mortality rate, the recovery rate, the rate of inflation, and the population and consider the time frame from the first case then the conclusion is playing with numbers.
     
  4. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    22,050
    Likes Received:
    1,857
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Do you have any information on estimates of unreported cases? The Wall Street Journal says that the estimated death rate is deeply flawed but the article is behind a paywall.
     
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,496
    Likes Received:
    3,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No. I was just thinking about the claim of the OP (that the U.S. is somehow doing a worse job than other developed countries). I do not know that we have the data to make a decision at this time (it will be a long time before we have enough hind sight to know).

    The mortality rate of COVID-19 in the in the US it is 1.4%. That is bad.

    But it is 4.9% in the UK, 10.2% in Italy, and 7.2% in Spain.

    This is just number of deaths divided by cases. The US has 85000 reported cases and 1195 deaths. The UK, 11,658 cases and 578 deaths. Italy 80,589 cases and 8,215 deaths. Spain 47,610 cases and 3,434 deaths.

    The US has a population of 327.2 million. The UK 66.44 million. Your chances of dying of COVID-19 in the UK is three times higher than in the US (.0003% in the US, .0009% in the UK).

    Given the numbers, the claim of the OP just seems strange or at least subjective. I'm sure all countries have unreported cases.
     
  6. Rippon2

    Rippon2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2020
    Messages:
    1,119
    Likes Received:
    177
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I've been back in the USA since May of 2018. But I returned twice to China to retrieve my books, see my friends and get dental work.
    That's a given.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,356
    Likes Received:
    1,776
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I have a huge doubt that Cuba has much of a medical system. Communism stifles personal initiative. End of story.

    Cuban doctors not being in it for the money means that they have no self interest in quality work. And they are sent all over the world by the communist dictator for his purposes, not theirs. I was in Japanese language school years ago with a Chinese artist forced to study in Japan by his government. He was not happy about it. Another Chinese there had fled the Chinese Cultural Revolution with his father to start a Chinese restaurant in Tokyo. The Cultural Revolution destroyed all progress in China for decades. That's what dictators do-stop progress.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,356
    Likes Received:
    1,776
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Bummer being the only "foreign devil" there. The unwanted attention is fierce.
     
  9. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    22,050
    Likes Received:
    1,857
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Well, of course, you are one hundred percent correct, John of Japan. The Cuban healthcare system is one of the worst in the world although they do run an international clinic for other communists. As for their doctors, your example of people forced to study in Japan is totally correct for what is happening to Cuban "doctors," some of whom probably have little more than very basic first aid training. They are in effect slaves of the Castro family. They have to leave their entire family behind in Cuba so if they defect they can never see their loved ones again. They get almost no money at all as the Castros keep what the other countries pay for the medial teams. The truth of the matter is that a guy with a very old car who runs a taxi service in Havana probably makes more money than anyone else in Cuba except for communist party officials.

    The lies of the American Communists are never-ending. All of Latin America is probably below Japan in per capita income. They have gone left and tried to use the government to guarantee jobs and healthcare and it has backfired badly. Venezuela started out in the 1960s or so taking property and businesses away from foreigners and now they are taking property and businesses away from their own citizens. They have more oil than Saudi Arabia but they live in squalor thanks to socialism/communism. And so it goes throughout Latin America. Cuba has the pandemic and it is thought that a high-ranking old time communist with Castro in 1959 General Ramiro Valdes has died of the flu but that may be a rumor.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  10. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    22,050
    Likes Received:
    1,857
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Of course, the type of healthcare system matters. Our private companies have stepped up to manufacture products in short supply on the double.

    And as Crowder has pointed out, we have people of all nationalities and ages all over the this country. Also, as he said, we have about a hundred different sexes in this country, more than anywhere else in the world. :Alien:Alien:Alien
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2004
    Messages:
    8,423
    Likes Received:
    1,160
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I'm looking at straight up overall confirmed cases and the reported death rates in countries, and that will give a good idea of how the individual health care systems are doing. Coronavirus Update (Live): 590,015 Cases and 26,939 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer

    For instance, I skipped China because you can't trust them but starting with Italy, the first to be majorly infected I closely watched and annualized the numbers - I watched as the death rate was increasing from 6% to 10% over 2 weeks by simply doing the math.

    It is not perfect, but the numbers are there...
     
  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,496
    Likes Received:
    3,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I think we should expect the infection numbers to increase in proportion to population.

    The best I can do is consider ratios. But even here we need to factor in the prior age and health of the population. Also there are differences in precautions. The US may prolong the issue, perhaps have more cases, but ultimately save more lives. We just do not know yet.

    Given current data odds are better in the US than the UK, Italy and Spain.... so far.
     
  13. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2004
    Messages:
    8,423
    Likes Received:
    1,160
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, if a healthcare system where to become very successful and get people in and out quickly with a high cure rate in could have as much impact in saving people as trying to avoid the infection ion the first place, meanwhile more and more people would become immune.
     
  14. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2004
    Messages:
    8,423
    Likes Received:
    1,160
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yep, currently 1.5% death rate, much better than Italy and Spain but that is still way too high for my liking and being we are earlier into this I'm nervous about whether or not and how high it might climb. Lots of prayers over this...
     
  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,496
    Likes Received:
    3,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It is scary. World wide its a 22.5% recovery rate, 4.5% death rate (going off the number infected).
     
  16. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    5,143
    Likes Received:
    149
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Just keep in mind data lags.

    Testing doesn’t happen until patients are symptomatic and then there is the time to process. So usually confirmed cases are around 1 week after the actual infection time.

    And then for all active cases we don’t know if they will die or live until the disease runs its course. Average infection to death time is around 3 weeks. So the deaths you are seeing now are from the infections that were detected around 2 weeks ago and transmitted a week before that.
     
    #56 Gold Dragon, Mar 27, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2020
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  17. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2004
    Messages:
    8,423
    Likes Received:
    1,160
    Faith:
    Baptist
    We are currently testing 100,000 people a day, far more than any other nation, and still expanding the testing.. We are in the process of producing ventilators at such a rate that we have the intentions to help supply some of these other "developed countries".
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    22,050
    Likes Received:
    1,857
    Faith:
    Baptist
    There must be many cases not in the official count so the percentages are totally useless. The numbers from the communist world are unreliable. For example, it is reported from Cuba that thug murderer Gen. Ramiro Valdes died of the virus but Raul Castro is withholding all information.
     
  19. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2004
    Messages:
    8,423
    Likes Received:
    1,160
    Faith:
    Baptist
    China has 3 times the population of us and yet ...supposedly, ...we have surpassed their number of infections in a short time.

    The UK, France, Spain, and Italy all have a higher death rate than China's 4.0% and none are showing any signs of the amount of cases or the death rate slowing down.

    I hear China has sent tests to other countries and they have been found to be defective with false negatives. Is that what they test with? If they are lying they will not be able to hide the deaths to come. If they are telling the truth then I am suspicious of how well they are handling this epidemic that they started.

    We are going to have to meet this challenge with whatever it takes and I'm glad that I live in this country to do it.
     
  20. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    5,143
    Likes Received:
    149
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19) – Statistics and Research

    This page has a pretty good comparison of CFR (case fatality rate) by country and also presents a good discussion about the limitations of this kind of analysis.

     
Loading...