The old KJV uses the conjunction "and" so often. But the ESV is a respectable second in its employment of the word.
In Luke 1:6-38 :
KJV : 25 times
ESV : 22
NASBU : 9
NAB : 6
MLB : 5
NET: 4
TNIV: 3
HCSB: 3
REB: 3
NJB: 3
NRSV: 2
NLTse: 2
Norlie: 1
In Mark, chapter 1:
KJV : 35
ESV : 28
NJB : 16
NASBU : 15
NRSV : 13
TNIV : 6
REB : 5
Norlie : 4
MLB : 4
HCSB : 4
NAB : 4
NLTse : 2
NET : 2
Matthew, chapter 1:
KJV : 16
ESV : 15
NRSV : 14
Norlie : 3
MLB : 2
HCSB : 2
TNIV : 2
REB : 2
NASBU : 2
NET : 2
NLTse : 1
NJB : 1
NAB : 0
And, And, And...
Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Rippon, Sep 23, 2009.
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I'm waiting for someone to say:"And, so?"
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kai...
1100 times in Mark in the GNT
Rob -
preachinjesus Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
The use of the conjunctive in both Greek and Hebrew is different than we use it today. Particularly in narrative passages the use of the conjuctive is there for movement and to keep things in line.
Ironically if you were to look at the Gospel of Mark from a position of evaluating the conjuction and active verbs it is replete with them. Particularly when comparing kai with erkomai. :) -
In modern English we have punctuation. In Koine Greek you have "kai" which translates most all the time as "and".
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This is indeed one of the weaknesses of the ESV
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which basically means it's a grammatical quirk without any significant semantic meaning, something that the Heb language demands (like accent marks in French or question particles in Chinese or ALLCAPS in 1st-century Koine Greek) but doesn't need to be reflected in translation. IOW, that Heb waw does NOT mean "and" in English but is only a tense marker!
and if that's so, then putting those "ands" into an English version only detracts from the meaning of the original.
why did Mark seem to have a penchant for KAI? well, i dunno--maybe it had an intended effect on his audience that we no longer know. but not all the evangelists n apostles went for that KAI-waw correspondence, n we're certainly not obligated or encouraged to follow Mark above the others, are we? -
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Somehow I had fogotten to include the NKJV in my listing.
For Luke 1:6-38
KJV : 25
ESV : 22
NKJ : 12
NASBU : 9
For Mark chapter 1
KJV : 35
ESV : 28
NJB : 16
NASBU : 15
NKJ : 14
NRSV : 13
For Matthew chapter 1
KJV : 16
ESV : 15
NKJ : 4
Norlie : 3
So wow, the NKJ is better than the ESV in eliminating the excessive use of "and". -
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All Bible translations involve interpretation. there is no translation without interpretation. -
And yet, the whole reason we have the RSV (and by extension, the ESV) was to make the RV more readable and to correct such overuse of wooden literalism that many feel the old NASB was guilty of and a few, such as Rippon's favorite Wayne Grudem, say the new is still guilty of.
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The English use of the word "and" is certainly not as bad as the modern abuse of the term "you know" every few sentences!!!!!!! Cor blimey! It drives me bonkers!
Cheers,
Jim -
I know that one of my profs (who also taught Hebrew and Greek, which I did not take) said the "and's" are important and there for a reason.
I think in Mark "and" implies an immediacy to the events being recounted, and fast action. Mark is very compact.
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Another time Jesus went into the synagogue, and a man with a shriveled hand was there. Some of them were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, so they watched him closely to see if he would heal him on the Sabbath. Jesus said to the man with the shriveled hand, "stand up in front of everyone." Then Jesus asked them, "Which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?" But they remained silent. He looked around at them with anger and, deeply distressed at their stubborn hearts, said to the man, 'stretch out your hand." He stretched it out, and his hand wa scompletely restored. Then the Pharisees went out and began to plot with the Herodians how they might kill Jesus. -
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