Jerome, just what is your point with your out-of-context quotes of mine?
Do you have any questions?
Another Thread On Translation
Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Rippon, Feb 27, 2018.
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I see Colossians 4:16 has been offered as indicating less than formal equivalence is required.
NASB 16 When this letter is read among you, have it also read in the church of the Laodiceans; and you, for your part read my letter that is coming from Laodicea.
And this was lacking when compared to this loose translation:
NIV 16 After this letter has been read to you, see that it is also read in the church of the Laodiceans and that you in turn read the letter from Laodicea.
1) NIV mistranslates "when (whenever)" as "after." Totally unnecessary, since "when this letter has been read to you" means exactly the same thing!
2) NIV mistranslates read among you as "read to you." Again sacrificing accuracy for no gain
3) The NASB fills the ellipsis with "my letter" rather than "the letter," again avoiding the confusion that someone else might have written it.
Once again, no verse needs to be translated loosely. -
*The NASB had to read the "textual clues" and context to determine the true meaning. The NASB did not go word for word here....maintinaing the most straight forward reading. It is dynamic.
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Then while contradicting yourself, you charge me with your offense.
Even if you are correct in your claim (now not before) that "my" is not a grammatical, historical; translation choice, still the NIV made twice as many loose choices. :) -
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What is the literal transaltion of the article? It is "the". The NASB does not render it so....and mostly like is correct in assuming such from the contextual clues. NASB used a more dynamic method than the NIV here. Providing a more "accurate", yet dynamic reading. If we stayed as literal as possible is would read something like , "and the from Laodicea, and so that you read a loud". The literal is ambiguous.
Our transaltion carried the subject down
(ἐπιστολή). NIV keep the Greek (lit "the"). NASB changed article to "my". Or the article could possible be "that" as literal type reading . So we would have that letter, or the letter.....my letter is more dynamic than the other two possibilities
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Here is what you wrote:
Thus you indicated above that "my" was a "literal" translation choice that did not need a footnote to indicate it was a dynamic choice outside the historical grammatical meaning of the word.
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And I never said "my" was a "literal" choice. Neither did Mounce. Mounce does not believe in "literal". I said it was probably correct choice. I repeated myself because you have yet to understand that the NASB employeed dynamic principles to transalte this verse. A "literal" rendering would fail miserably. The NASB did not get it right because it is "literal". The NIV was "literal" when it translated "τὴν". The literal is ambiguous. It could be a letter from the church or from Paul. Contextual evidence seems to support Paul, but the NIV left that decision up to the reader. Something you have supported in the past. The NASB decides for the reader. It interprets intent for the reader. It is more dynamic than the NIV here.
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Next, filling an elipsis with the indicated word is consistent with how formal equivalence is done. Thus both "my letter" and "the letter" can be found in formal equivalence versions.
And to repeat, even if you are right and "my letter" is less formal than "the letter" the NIV translation is still the looser of the two renderings of Colossians 4:16.
Now lets look at some verses I would choose:
1 Corinthians 16:13 "be courageous" should read, "act like men."
Ephesians 2:3 deserving of wrath should read, "children of wrath."
The loose translations are full of examples of adding words, omitting words and changing the meaning of words. Not good. -
Not footnoting alterations is the sine qua non of loose translations. -
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You guys are swinging an empty sack. You cannot justify translating children of wrath as deserving of wrath, period. It is an abomination. -
Many of us have seen the chart comparing various bibles with more word for word versions on the left and more thought for thought on the right. Those in the middle, such as the NIV and CSB, like to describe their translation method as "optimal." But in actuality, those on the left are closer to optimal, and those more to the right contain more loose and sometimes shoddy translations.
We should focus and looking at the best, and considering how they can be improved, sometimes with insights gained from the more flawed versions to the right. -
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