Arabic Now an Option at Michigan DHS

[annsni]

However, English is a notoriously difficult language to learn. And I don't know about official forms in your country, but here, in spite of efforts to simplify them, still tend to include a lot of jargon. I learnt French and German when I was at school, and if I travelled to a French-speaking or German-speaking country, I could make myself understood in shops, restaurants, etc., but would not have been able to understand and fill in an official form. Yet you seem to be expecting non-English speakers to reach that sort of a standard in the English language before they set foot in your country.

Apart from that, surely in your country, as in mine, there are plenty of other official forms that have nothing to do with getting money from the government; in the case of income tax returns it is just the opposite.

We had two Chinese graduate students stay with us a few years ago. Their names were Angela and Jennifer. We asked how they have "American" names and they told us that when they learned English in elementary school, each is assigned an American name. I understand in many countries, English is a mandatory language for school. So there are already many in other countries who know at least a cursory English.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

We had two Chinese graduate students stay with us a few years ago. Their names were Angela and Jennifer. We asked how they have "American" names and they told us that when they learned English in elementary school, each is assigned an American name. I understand in many countries, English is a mandatory language for school. So there are already many in other countries who know at least a cursory English.

As it should be.

We haven't been a superpower to just be ignored!!! We defeated Germany, we won the Cold war with the Soviet Union and we feed the rest of the world. We certainly give the world money so they should speak english just to please us.

 

[rbell]

My only issue with other languages has to do with public safety issues...e.g., I'm no fan of giving a driving test in another language. If you can't read our signs, you become a hazard as a driver.

Outside of that...as long as we're not enabling illegal immigration, I have no problem.

And I agree with many others that the Islam/Arabic equivocation was a silly one.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

We certainly give the world money so they should speak english just to please us.

Well, at least you are upfront about your jingoism . I can appreciate you for that.

 

[preachinjesus]

As it should be.

We haven't been a superpower to just be ignored!!! We defeated Germany, we won the Cold war with the Soviet Union and we feed the rest of the world. We certainly give the world money so they should speak english just to please us.

Well this quote encapsulates the entire discussion rather simply.

Ironically we are one of the only countries whose composition is entirely one of colonalization from a vast array of nations and ethnic tribes. I wonder what the position will be in 15, 20, maybe 25 years when China and other (currently) emerging economies overtake the US economically. When we are no longer the "superpower" what then?

When the majority of our population isn't Caucasian but is Hispanic or another ethnicity what then? When the majority of people in the United States speak a language other than English as their primary language, what then?

We are a stronger country when our students are able to learn broadly and better than other socities. The argument about cost is a non sequitor, this is part of normal costs budgetted for a school system. It is no more costly to add Arabaic than it is to add Chinese. Frankly, our students will be better prepared for the global marketplace by taking advantage of both.

The next century will be defined by the globalized community that is accessible at any point from any place. If we think that the America of the this century is stronger by sheltering ourselves we will end up like Mongolia, a fiercely tribalist state that has been passed over by the world.

I hope all our schools move away from the languages of the economies of last century (German, French, etc) and embrace languages of this, and future, century (Arabaic, Chinese, Korean, etc.) :thumbs:

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

The sad reality is that blind American jingoism is playing right into the hands of those who are looking forward to a Post-American world. America ignores the rest of the world at her peril.

 

[freeatlast]

The sad reality is that blind American jingoism is playing right into the hands of those who are looking forward to a Post-American world. America ignores the rest of the world at her peril.

This is the only country that pours out aid at a rate that is bankrupting itself. We are usually the first to reply to any disaster and we have just about what amounts to open borders even is done by turning our heads to illegals and you say we ignore the rest of the world! :laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

This is the only country that pours out aid at a rate that is bankrupting itself. We are usually the first to reply to any disaster and we have just about what amounts to open borders even is done by turning our heads to illegals and you say we ignore the rest of the world! :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Laugh all you want, but America is ignoring the rise to power of the East at her own peril. I suspect that we will see the Post-American World in my lifetime. The world is glad to take America's money in their inexorable rise to power.

 

[freeatlast]

Laugh all you want, but America is ignoring the rise to power of the East at her own peril. I suspect that we will see the Post-American World in my lifetime. The world is glad to take America's money in their inexorable rise to power.

Perhaps I miss understood what you were saying. I certainly agree that we are near a serious fall from power. I believe the reason will be the debt which will bring us down, but by the Lord's hand because of the church turning from Him to live like the world around her.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Well this quote encapsulates the entire discussion rather simply.

Ironically we are one of the only countries whose composition is entirely one of colonalization from a vast array of nations and ethnic tribes. I wonder what the position will be in 15, 20, maybe 25 years when China and other (currently) emerging economies overtake the US economically. When we are no longer the "superpower" what then?

When the majority of our population isn't Caucasian but is Hispanic or another ethnicity what then? When the majority of people in the United States speak a language other than English as their primary language, what then?

We are a stronger country when our students are able to learn broadly and better than other socities. The argument about cost is a non sequitor, this is part of normal costs budgetted for a school system. It is no more costly to add Arabaic than it is to add Chinese. Frankly, our students will be better prepared for the global marketplace by taking advantage of both.

The next century will be defined by the globalized community that is accessible at any point from any place. If we think that the America of the this century is stronger by sheltering ourselves we will end up like Mongolia, a fiercely tribalist state that has been passed over by the world.

I hope all our schools move away from the languages of the economies of last century (German, French, etc) and embrace languages of this, and future, century (Arabaic, Chinese, Korean, etc.) :thumbs:

Though I thought I'd be funny the reality is while reading your post several thoughts occured to me. I have lived in many countries. I am hispanic ( legal US citizen who served in the Air Force for 6 years). Unfortunately, when people hear hispanic they immediately assume illegal Mexican of which I am neither so I clarify. My father being a Diplomat served his 30 year career overseas and by default I spent a lot of time in many countries. Also while in the Air Force. So with this in mind I would like to mention a few of the things you speak of.

Ironically we are one of the only countries whose composition is entirely one of colonalization from a vast array of nations and ethnic tribes. I wonder what the position will be in 15, 20, maybe 25 years when China and other (currently) emerging economies overtake the US economically. When we are no longer the "superpower" what then?

If world history is any indicator we'll end up speaking Chinese if this is the case though to be honest I have my doubts. Rule of thumb from world history. Those in power, rule and make the rules.

When the majority of our population isn't Caucasian but is Hispanic or another ethnicity what then? When the majority of people in the United States speak a language other than English as their primary language, what then?

This is a more complicated issue than you give credit for. Certainly a common dialect or tongue could very well be spanish. However, if world history is of any import. When Rome fell the language of Lawyers, Priest, Medicine, science remained Latin. Thus the educated maintained Latin to communicate on techincal terms but spoke their native languages in regular speach. It seems to me in the case of the United States if hispanics were to out number the caucasians like latin English will have its use as the technical language with regards to science, legal discourse etc... but away from these professions the market place will be spanish until enough time has passed that English becomes no longer relevant in any discourse but from what we've seen of Latin that could be hundreds of years.

We are a stronger country when our students are able to learn broadly and better than other socities. The argument about cost is a non sequitor, this is part of normal costs budgetted for a school system. It is no more costly to add Arabaic than it is to add Chinese. Frankly, our students will be better prepared for the global marketplace by taking advantage of both.

Our country by nature is capitalistic. And because of that people will adapt to the Market needs. When it becomes apparant that english is insufficient in the global community our schools will ensure other relevant languages are required. However, many americans do not have ambitions beyond graduating highschool and working in the community where they can get a job. Once it becomes clear that local work is dependent on the greater global income more americans will be interested in other languages and cultures to enhance their living. However, as it is many americans are content with making a living and providing for their immediate needs when these needs become infringed upon by outside sourses the "jingoism" will decrease.

The next century will be defined by the globalized community that is accessible at any point from any place. If we think that the America of the this century is stronger by sheltering ourselves we will end up like Mongolia, a fiercely tribalist state that has been passed over by the world.

I sincerly believe in this century America will loose its middle class or have it become negligable at best. The country will be divided between the extreme wealthy and those barely making it. The extreem wealthy will be the only ones with the access to global orientation and proper education. Our have nots will be used much like slave labor with income amounts prohibiting a disposable amount. We in turn will end up like many african and asian communities. The have nots will continue to be poorly educated in order to keep them from accessing a better life of their own accord. Unfortunately, this is a direct result of trying to meet Global standards. When you compare the rest of the Globe you see that human interest are negligable for the poor and the only conserns any one has is for those with wealth and power.

I hope all our schools move away from the languages of the economies of last century (German, French, etc) and embrace languages of this, and future, century (Arabaic, Chinese, Korean, etc.)

It really depends where the global economy goes. As it stands things are pretty much up in the Air. Russian may be a good bet. China is a tenuous economy at best an may loose its progress very quickly. Already, the Elderly out number the youth and costs of their care prohibit accumilation of wealth unless state policy becomes to kill people of a certain age which isn't beyond China. For several Years China has refused to Accurately value their currency. And they aren't able to maintain food for their populace internally which means heavy foreign reliance. Much like Japan has for raw material. Arabs will only have influence as long as they have control over energy sources once Oil becomes irrelevant the Arabs will revert to their tribal factions killing each other to increase wealth rather than attempt a meeting requirements of a global economy. I don't see them as progressive inventing new ideas or developing new technologies. Koreans are an interesting group. We'll have to wait and see. India I think maybe a future leader. We'll see. As of now its really up for grabs.

 

[freeatlast]

It is not about what then. It is about now. The English language is the overall language of the nation and it should be made officially that as well. In doing so all government forms could easily be required to be in English only which would have the tendency to cause those who live here legally to learn the language.
Regardless, the cost involved with multiple forms and languages is simply unnecessary and a luxury which this country can not and should not seek to support especially with its current debt.
Requiring someone here legally to speak, read and write the language for the purpose of filling out government forms is not being harsh. It is a very cost effective method to keep government spending at a minimum in this area and limit the burden on the tax payer. It is much more reasonable to expect the one (the few) seeking the assistance to be able to fill out the forms in English then it is for the government to coddle their choice not to learn the language.
I would make one point here. If someone from another country wants to open a business in an area where there is not a large population of their native tongue they always learn to speak that language. They do not expect their costumers to learn to speak their language so as to do business with them. The same applies here in this issue. There should not be multiple language forms when dealing with the government for assistance.

 

[righteousdude2]

Point, Counterpoint on Diverse Languages

In stories, I watched on the History Channel, etc., they have taken time to mention that even in China, their children are taught English. English has been, and I can only assume that it will continue to be, the language of choice.

There is nothing wrong with people living in a nation as blended as America, to utilize their native tongue out of convenience and ease.

However, "When in Rome...." it is expected that there be one currency, one measuring system, one common constitution and set of laws, and one language. Without common established currencies, languages, measure system, etc., the result is utter chaos! In my opinion, of course.

Those that come to America turn in their native currency and use the currency of this land. They obtain a drivers license, ID card, and social security card of this nation. They secure a medical provider or plan, in this nation (or continue to travel to their homeland whenever medical needs arise). I hope you get the picture.

Diversity is making this nation into a blended nation of many separate cultures by providing the easy way to obtain the necessary tools to live and function in America. What good is it for someone to pass the state drivers license in their native tongue, when everything they will encounter on the road of life (so to speak) is in English?

The other day, I watched a Hispanic lady argue with a cop when being given a ticket for illegally parking in a handicapped space. From what I could hear (from the interpret, or) she did not understand what handicapped spaces were.

That is but one example of a foreign national obtaining their license to drive in their native tongue, on a language friendly form, and with an interpreter conducting the driving test. Sure they met the bare minimum qualification for a license, but did they truly understand the entirety of the laws of the roads they wished to navigate???

If we are going to be a nation of diverse tongues, why not be a nation of multiple currency's, measure systems, laws of the specific culture and society, etc.?

Truly, there has to be melting and coming together of certain things to prevent everyone from doing their own thing and running amok!

Again, this is merely my opinion, and it doesn't mean that it is the "hill on which I will fight to my death!"

 

[Squire Robertsson]

If you want your residents to use your services, they need to be able to speak to you and vice versa. Mich just happens to have a large Arab speaking population. Believe it or not, the core is made up of Christians from what is now Lebanon.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Believe it or not, the core is made up of Christians from what is now Lebanon.

See, there you go presenting facts

 

[rbell]

What good is it for someone to pass the state drivers license in their native tongue, when everything they will encounter on the road of life (so to speak) is in English?

The other day, I watched a Hispanic lady argue with a cop when being given a ticket for illegally parking in a handicapped space. From what I could hear (from the interpret, or) she did not understand what handicapped spaces were.

That is but one example of a foreign national obtaining their license to drive in their native tongue, on a language friendly form, and with an interpreter conducting the driving test. Sure they met the bare minimum qualification for a license, but did they truly understand the entirety of the laws of the roads they wished to navigate???

This is your strongest argument. This is indeed a public safety issue, IMO. If you cannot read our road signs, you could very well be a hazard.

 

[rbell]

Having just returned from a mission trip serving the Roma people in Slovakia, I'm reminded of the daunting task of learning a new tongue, especially as an adult. The intimidation of not knowing what is said. The paranoia of thinking, when you hear laughter, that you are the subject matter being chuckled about. The feeling of helplessness at the inability to communicate anything without outside help.

As I've said...there's not much way around the public safety issue, but I'm more than ready to show grace in these other instances...and I'll continue to help be a part of the solution by offering help in teaching English to those who wish to learn (I've enjoyed that immensely over the years).

And it must be said...because I teach the most superior form of English--Southern English--home of the "ya'll" and "fixin' to"--it usually causes the learner's IQ to rise, their looks to improve, and a very faint halo to form over their head.

Ya'll oughta consider learning Southern. Y'hear?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

And it must be said...because I teach the most superior form of English--Southern English--home of the "ya'll" and "fixin' to"--it usually causes the learner's IQ to rise, their looks to improve, and a very faint halo to form over their head.

Ya'll oughta consider learning Southern. Y'hear?

Ya betcha. Anyone with a licka sense knows that Southern is superior! I reckon when Yanks move south they oughta hafta learn Southern!

 

[freeatlast]

If you want your residents to use your services, they need to be able to speak to you and vice versa. Mich just happens to have a large Arab speaking population. Believe it or not, the core is made up of Christians from what is now Lebanon.

That is great, but who is seeking for them to use their services. Are you in the government? Let them learn english and use thenm if they must and save the tax payer some money.

 

[NiteShift]

Believe it or not, the core is made up of Christians from what is now Lebanon.

The last wave of Lebanese Christians to settle in the US was from the 40's through the mid 80's. By now all of these speak English (The Lebanese Christians that I worked with in the 70's - 80's all spoke English).

 

[righteousdude2]

You Have a Point...

The last wave of Lebanese Christians to settle in the US was from the 40's through the mid 80's. By now all of these speak English (The Lebanese Christians that I worked with in the 70's - 80's all spoke English).

The majority of Arab/Muslims moving to Michigan are, in fact, folks being resettled from Iraq and Afghanistan. They may, or may not be English speaking Christians, as you say. However, they are immigrants being moved here by the government in an effort to resettle civilian/refugees uprooted by the war in their countries. Their religion is sorted, and not just Christian!

SEE:
http://muslimsinmichigan.org/

http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2009/07/michiganmuslim-mob-surrounds-and.html

http://www.cairmichigan.org/progams/upcoming_events/

http://www.arabdetroit.com/arabamericans.php

I think I provided you a vast amount of media info to make decisions for yourself about the concerns of those who do not believe there is a need to placate to the Arab immigrants, any more than there is a need to placate to the needs of immigrants from China, Mexico, etc.

Welcome to America. Please work hard to embrace this culture in order to make your social and cultural assimilation a pleasant and positive experience, as you move to become a citizen in every sense of the word!