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Are school teachers paid too much
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
FR7 Baptist
Active Member
I think a B.A. is reasonable for public school teachers. Here a substitute needs an A.A., but I do think that a high school diploma is enough to be a substitute.
I do think that a professional should have a professional degree.
But I think that our superintendents make WAY too much money. Well over $200,000 a year for each school district - some as high as over $300,000. NOT cool in my book. Especially when they cry poverty and cut busing and school supplies.
But I think that our superintendents make WAY too much money. Well over $200,000 a year for each school district - some as high as over $300,000. NOT cool in my book. Especially when they cry poverty and cut busing and school supplies.
SaggyWoman
Active Member
A for the admin salary depends on how big the school system is.
Oh, where do I start?
I know that most people, especially fundamentalist Christians think that we school teachers are the devil incarnate, but ..... I digress.
Listen, if all it took to teach 7th grade math was merely the ability to DO 7th grade math, then any 10th grade drop out could be your 7th grade math teachers.
If all it took to teach 3rd grade science was knowing the order of the planets and how seeds sprout and how caterpillars turn into moths and butterflies, then anyone with only a 5th or 6th grade education could be a 3rd grade science teacher.
Yes, you have to know content to teach. But you also have to know the research on HOW to teach. You have to know HOW to think critically yourself about math and all its wonders. Therefore the teacher needs to take adult math classes such as college algebra, trig, calculus so that she learns how to think like a mathematician thinks.
She has to understand the scienctific method on an adult level, therefore she has to go to college and beyond and participate in research and experimentation in her own classes so that she can teach other to take the scientific method and apply to their own content and grade level.
I could go on....but you either understand it or you don't.
It's a thankless, thankless job.
And I love it.
I know that most people, especially fundamentalist Christians think that we school teachers are the devil incarnate, but ..... I digress.
Listen, if all it took to teach 7th grade math was merely the ability to DO 7th grade math, then any 10th grade drop out could be your 7th grade math teachers.
If all it took to teach 3rd grade science was knowing the order of the planets and how seeds sprout and how caterpillars turn into moths and butterflies, then anyone with only a 5th or 6th grade education could be a 3rd grade science teacher.
Yes, you have to know content to teach. But you also have to know the research on HOW to teach. You have to know HOW to think critically yourself about math and all its wonders. Therefore the teacher needs to take adult math classes such as college algebra, trig, calculus so that she learns how to think like a mathematician thinks.
She has to understand the scienctific method on an adult level, therefore she has to go to college and beyond and participate in research and experimentation in her own classes so that she can teach other to take the scientific method and apply to their own content and grade level.
I could go on....but you either understand it or you don't.
It's a thankless, thankless job.
And I love it.
The administrators make too much. The teachers, not enough. Teachers around here are expected to raise people's kids for them, supply their own classrooms with bulletin board materials, etc, and many times carry heavy workloads due to a lack of staff. When my mom taught she had too many students, not to mention too many mentally/behavior challenged students sprinkled in that took all her time and energy, instead of the school hiring a special ed. teacher. She spent hundreds of dollars to furnish her classroom, even buying her own desk, chair, bookshelves, etc. You would think that with all the taxes we pay for public schools, teachers wouldn't have to do this!
I think the real question should be whether or not our tax dollars should support government run public schools.
I think the real question should be whether or not our tax dollars should support government run public schools.
Oh, where do I start?
I know that most people, especially fundamentalist Christians think that we school teachers are the devil incarnate, but ..... I digress.
Listen, if all it took to teach 7th grade math was merely the ability to DO 7th grade math, then any 10th grade drop out could be your 7th grade math teachers.
If all it took to teach 3rd grade science was knowing the order of the planets and how seeds sprout and how caterpillars turn into moths and butterflies, then anyone with only a 5th or 6th grade education could be a 3rd grade science teacher.
Yes, you have to know content to teach. But you also have to know the research on HOW to teach. You have to know HOW to think critically yourself about math and all its wonders. Therefore the teacher needs to take adult math classes such as college algebra, trig, calculus so that she learns how to think like a mathematician thinks.
She has to understand the scienctific method on an adult level, therefore she has to go to college and beyond and participate in research and experimentation in her own classes so that she can teach other to take the scientific method and apply to their own content and grade level.
I could go on....but you either understand it or you don't.
It's a thankless, thankless job.
And I love it.
Scarlett, you are right. Too many people think teaching is an easy job ... and too many are critical instead of thankful for their children's teachers. Teachers earn every cent they make. SAG, thank you for the job you do. Thank you for loving it. Keep on keeping on, teaching the kids.
I did not select any of the options in the poll. There were too few choices and too many negative ones. How 'bout a few positive ones next time?
Salty, I may be wrong but after reviewing the choices it appears you are very anti public schools.
If people think education is expensive, try ignorance.
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Steven2006
New Member
This is not a yes or no answer. IMO there are some areas of the country where because of strong unions and local school boards the answer would be yes, and other areas that the opposite would be true.
Not at all, my biggest complain about public schools is that (esp Christian) parents are not involved in PTA, school board meetings, and ect.
I do have a problem with a first grade teacher being required to have a masters degree. Not sure about other states or commonwealths, but in NY, you may start teaching with a BA, but you must complete you masters in 2 or 3 years - if you dont, I suppose you loose your job.
I am not against education, but lets not require more than what is needed for the job.
There are only options for 10 choices. You did bring up a good point about a "postitive" poll. I'll let you start that one! :thumbsup:
Salty
The poll has nothing do do with unions - what do YOU think the requirements should be.
(actually, unions should have been an option also.) I wonder if some districts are closed shops?
Bob Alkire
New Member
I didn't go to public school, I was home schooled except for two years at Hargrave in Chatham, Va. But when I was in high school in the 50's most of our public school teachers had two year teaching certificates.
My wife went to school in Ky. and she tells me that about half of her teachers had the two year certificate.
I taught school while in seminary and about one third of the teachers where I taught had the two year certificate.
I have a point that many today disagree with but here goes, some have what it takes to play a sport or music or teach, some are just much better than others in each. I don't know what most teachers are paid today, but I made more teaching than I ever did as a pastor 9for the times), but I didn't preach for the pay. I would say teachers are paid a little high if their pay was based on outcome.
So from my past I would say if one can teach, a two year certificate should work. It isn't the education but if you can teach what you know. Education won't hurt you, but I don't think it will ever make one a teacher.
My wife went to school in Ky. and she tells me that about half of her teachers had the two year certificate.
I taught school while in seminary and about one third of the teachers where I taught had the two year certificate.
I have a point that many today disagree with but here goes, some have what it takes to play a sport or music or teach, some are just much better than others in each. I don't know what most teachers are paid today, but I made more teaching than I ever did as a pastor 9for the times), but I didn't preach for the pay. I would say teachers are paid a little high if their pay was based on outcome.
So from my past I would say if one can teach, a two year certificate should work. It isn't the education but if you can teach what you know. Education won't hurt you, but I don't think it will ever make one a teacher.
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Steven2006
New Member
I was just trying to best answer the original question of the OP. "Are school teachers paid too much?"
IMO the answer to that question is as I answered above. And because of the variance of that, all the questions in the poll would change based on the reasoning in my answer.
Having taught at both the high school and college levels, no.
I am a proud product of a great public school system.
I can't tell you who won the World Series, Super Bowl, or Stanley Cup the year I graduated from high school. I can't tell you who was the MVP for any of those leagues that year either.
I can tell exactly who all of my high school instructors were and tell you how they influenced my life (positively.)
They all need to be paid hundreds of thousands of dollars, they need to be the best of our society, our schools should be mansions equipped with the latest and greatest advanced in technology. As a society we owe it to the next generation to do so.
Our teachers need to be paid more and need to be better equipped. I can't understand any argument against that.
I can't tell you who won the World Series, Super Bowl, or Stanley Cup the year I graduated from high school. I can't tell you who was the MVP for any of those leagues that year either.
I can tell exactly who all of my high school instructors were and tell you how they influenced my life (positively.)
They all need to be paid hundreds of thousands of dollars, they need to be the best of our society, our schools should be mansions equipped with the latest and greatest advanced in technology. As a society we owe it to the next generation to do so.
Our teachers need to be paid more and need to be better equipped. I can't understand any argument against that.
Salty, I was an elementary school librarian for four years and I became convinced there is no more important grade than the first grade. If the foundation is not set in first grade it is hard to build on it later. I stood in awe of first grade teachers after seeing them at work.
This poll is ridiculous. Do you know anything of teaching? Teachers aren't paid nearly enough.
Teachers have to deal with a lot and get no thanks for it. They can't discipline anymore, neither can the school - have you ever tried to deal with bad kids you can't really discipline? Then there are the parents, which think their kids can do no wrong. Then there is the educational system which needs a major overhaul.
Teaching is hard. The idea of elementary teachers just needing a high school diploma is laughable. Good teachers are hard to come by, and we currently are driving good teachers out of the public school system. The problem isn't the teachers.
Teachers have to deal with a lot and get no thanks for it. They can't discipline anymore, neither can the school - have you ever tried to deal with bad kids you can't really discipline? Then there are the parents, which think their kids can do no wrong. Then there is the educational system which needs a major overhaul.
Teaching is hard. The idea of elementary teachers just needing a high school diploma is laughable. Good teachers are hard to come by, and we currently are driving good teachers out of the public school system. The problem isn't the teachers.
mcdirector
Active Member
I moved from secondary math to 5th grade math. 5th grade math is TOUGH in NC and I have stretched in all kinds of new ways to figure out good and decent ways to teach it. The fact that I know where the math is going is a big plus I think.
I also think if someone outside of education were to look at the curriculum across a grade level, they'd be surprised at it's depth and breadth. On top of that there isn't a day that I don't have to convince children that learning (and not doing a number of a laundry list of things) is in their best interest. I am a hug, a referee, a policeman, a shoulder to cry on, a lunch buddy, a social trainer . . . I could go on. Then there is always the possibility I will get blasted by someone outside of the school building for being anyone of those things.
I've also got to mention the hours. I was up at 4:30 this morning to grade tests. I get to school at least 30 minutes before the school day starts and it's not uncommon to stay 2 hours late and/or bring work home. I spend the summer planning for the next year. Not intensely, mind you, but I don't get to take any time I want off during the school year. Depending on the county you are in, those snow days, might well be teacher work days or days without pay.
I do imagine there are a few gifted who could do this on a HS diploma, but unless we want schools to turn into day cares, I don't suggest we try. My education at the college level was the first step in training for this job. Classes helped hone my desire to teach as well as covering the subject matter I needed to teach those classes.
I also think if someone outside of education were to look at the curriculum across a grade level, they'd be surprised at it's depth and breadth. On top of that there isn't a day that I don't have to convince children that learning (and not doing a number of a laundry list of things) is in their best interest. I am a hug, a referee, a policeman, a shoulder to cry on, a lunch buddy, a social trainer . . . I could go on. Then there is always the possibility I will get blasted by someone outside of the school building for being anyone of those things.
I've also got to mention the hours. I was up at 4:30 this morning to grade tests. I get to school at least 30 minutes before the school day starts and it's not uncommon to stay 2 hours late and/or bring work home. I spend the summer planning for the next year. Not intensely, mind you, but I don't get to take any time I want off during the school year. Depending on the county you are in, those snow days, might well be teacher work days or days without pay.
I do imagine there are a few gifted who could do this on a HS diploma, but unless we want schools to turn into day cares, I don't suggest we try. My education at the college level was the first step in training for this job. Classes helped hone my desire to teach as well as covering the subject matter I needed to teach those classes.
I salute people like Bitsy (mcdirector) and all other dedicated Christians who've chosen to serve in our schools, both public and private.
IMHO good, dedicated teachers are NOT overpaid!!
Many of us have jobs that we can "clock out" when the day is done, but not teachers. Often they will serve in many other school activities that require them to spend additional hours at school without any additional financial compensation. When is the last time you heard of teachers getting paid overtime?
May God bless and richly reward all those of His children who serve as teachers!!
IMHO good, dedicated teachers are NOT overpaid!!
Many of us have jobs that we can "clock out" when the day is done, but not teachers. Often they will serve in many other school activities that require them to spend additional hours at school without any additional financial compensation. When is the last time you heard of teachers getting paid overtime?
May God bless and richly reward all those of His children who serve as teachers!!
mcdirector
Active Member
Agree with that. Although, in keeping up with what's happening in the districts around me, they seem to be going to a point system - need of field, number of licensure areas, student growth.