Typically the Articles concerning the Arm. Thinking call for something called prevenient Grace, which is not found in the Scriptures.
They assume that a fair God would afford all humans equality in choosing, yet at no point does the God of Heaven have human values in view when He makes purposeful decisions.
There must then be the work of the Holy Spirit causing such as God chooses to have open ears (understanding) while one preaches from the Scripture. For from that beginning is granted to that person the measure of faith from God for the purpose that God determines is necessary.
I have been called a Calvinist, yet disagree with the limited atonement as presented by the Dort folks and modern Calvinistic thinking folks.
Arminianism
Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by JonC, Nov 24, 2021.
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You think faith is yours and you invoke it by your willpower.
I think Jesus is the initiator and perfector of our faith (Hebrews 12:2).
To fully understand how we are justified by faith, we start with the realization that Jesus initiates faith. Then when we read Paul's glorious explanation of justification by faith alone from Romans 1 to 11, we fully grasp that the faith that justified Abraham and us is the faith that God initiated in us...it's not our faith, it's God's faith in us.
*Romans 3:3,23-28*
True, some of them were unfaithful; but just because they were unfaithful, does that mean God will be unfaithful?
For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins. For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus. Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on obeying the law. It is based on faith. So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law.
Look further to Romans 10
Romans 10:17,20
So faith comes from hearing, that is, hearing the Good News about Christ.
And later Isaiah spoke boldly for God, saying, “I was found by people who were not looking for me. I showed myself to those who were not asking for me.”
Silverhair, faith comes from Jesus...it's not your faith.
We disagree because I read the whole Bible and see that faith is a gift and Jesus initiates it. You read the Bible and you think faith is entirely from you.
I am sure you are wrong in your thinking about faith and I am sure you will find that out when you meet Jesus face to face. -
Silverhair Well-Known Member
You keep putting your own spin on the text instead of just reading what is there.
Rom 5:1 Therefore, since we have been made right in God's sight by faith, we have peace with God because of what Jesus Christ our Lord has done for us.
Did you miss the part of the verse that say "by Faith" note it does not say by Gods' faith or faith that God gave you. Just trust the text Austin, just trust the text. -
Silverhair Well-Known Member
Do you think that the Holy Spirit only convicts those that will trust God? Why do some on here want to limit God to what they think He can do and at the same time insist that He is sovereign. Some people have to make up their minds. Is God sovereign or is He not? -
Silverhair Well-Known Member
Austin you want to have a limited sovereign God that can only do what you want Him to do. You should really trust the bible and realize that God is much greater than you think he is. -
Show us how humans have their own faith, even though Hebrews 12:2 tells us that faith is initiated by Jesus and completed by Jesus.
Do you trust the Bible when God tells us this?
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
~ Hebrews 12:2
Why don't all come to God, if all have innate faith that they merely have to tap into in order to believe?
Why has God not broadcast the gospel to every single human on the planet since he desires all humans to initiate this innate faith that they all have?
Certainly, if your view is right, then all humans must already have heard the gospel in every nook and cranny of the globe since God unequivocally desires it for all humanity.
Now, tell us where this innate faith is located that has nothing to do with Jesus authoring it. -
Silverhair Well-Known Member
[QUOTE="AustinC, post: 2751307, member: 16342"Why don't all come to God, if all have innate faith that they merely have to tap into in order to believe?
Why has God not broadcast the gospel to every single human on the planet since he desires all humans to initiate this innate faith that they all have?
Certainly, if your view is right, then all humans must already have heard the gospel in every nook and cranny of the globe since God unequivocally desires it for all humanity.
Now, tell us where this innate faith is located that has nothing to do with Jesus authoring it.[/QUOTE]
Austin you love your red herrings. My question for you is why do you think that man cannot come to faith in Christ Jesus? If God thinks man can trust in Him why do you deny it?
Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
You continue to fight against scripture. Why you feel that is correct I do not know. Read Rom 1:18-20. God will judge man because they can know Him. You are fighting against God when you deny what He says and instead hold to your man made theology. -
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The key difference between the Arminian and Calvinist is who initiates faith and activates faith to believe.
Is faith a latent, innate, tool that lies dormant in all humanity or is faith a special gift God gives to those God is saving? -
You proclaim that Christianity starts with you doing something.
I proclaim that Christianity starts with God doing something.
Notice, however, that even in your proclamation, God has to exist first. If God does not reveal Jesus Christ to you...you cannot believe.
God always is the initiator. There is no other way and even your proclamation declares this ultimate truth..."Christianity starts with God doing something." -
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If someone comes claiming that faith was the good thing they supplied then they are looking at what faith is wrong. That's their problem - not that they are guilty of some kind of legalism if they come to Christ.
The Hebrew Christians were not worried about where their faith came from. They needed further assurance on what the faith was. And it is Jesus who is the author and finisher of our faith and the second part of the verse explains specifically what the elements of the faith are. Do you put your eternal destiny in the hands of Christ or go back to the blood of bulls and goats. (But there was no concern that someone would say "you" had to have faith.)
I'm not saying that God is not responsible for us having faith. But I am saying that this was not a big concern in any of the creeds, teaching etc. for the first 1500 years. What surprised me was that Calvin himself in talking about Ephesians 2:8-9 did not spend a lot of time making sure that they understood that the faith was not their own. He seemed to be concerned that salvation was not of works. -
Ephesians 2:8-10
God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago. -
George Antonios Well-Known Member
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Synergism: the doctrine that the human will cooperates with the Holy Ghost in the work of regeneration.
Monergism: the doctrine that the Holy Ghost acts independently of the human will in the work of regeneration.
I'm satisfied to call them 'free-willers'. -
SovereignGrace Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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"The elect are enabled to believe". If you aren't careful you go beyond "and that not of yourselves" to "not your own". There is a huge difference. The folks who say faith is their own are OK as long as they only mean that THEY have to actually exercise faith and they are not claiming some kind of meritorious attribute that they bring to God. If they are claiming such an attribute then the essence of their faith may be false because it is not a complete acknowledgement of their own condition and so is an indication that God's spirit has not been at work in them at all. But you incorrectly diagnose the problem if you say what they are doing wrong is personally having faith. The fact is they can and they must. -
The issue is not who is the giver or the recipient. The issue is when is faith given and to whom. Is faith given at conception to all humans so that at anytime the person so chooses they can activate that faith (and conversely choose to deactivate faith) or is faith given at salvation to those God chooses and is activated by God so that the recipient can use this gift henceforth?
I argue the latter and point to Romans, Ephesians and Hebrews as letters that confirm this argument.
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