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Babies in hell?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by kyredneck, Jan 31, 2019.

?
  1. Yes

    52.6%
  2. No

    47.4%
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  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Adam's transgression is passed to all persons at conception.
    The cross does not make men neutral.
    All are dead in sin.
    .
     
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  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    ...the holy grail dogma to the Calvinist.

    So what do the creeds and confessions say about "the free gift came unto all men to justification of life"?

    All become dead in sin if they live long enough.
     
  3. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Your creeds and/or confessions might say that but in no way does John 3:5-10.
     
    #63 kyredneck, Feb 1, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
  4. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    The cross did not remove psalm51:5 out of the bible, did it?
    Roman's 5...speaks of all in Adam, or all in Christ.
    All men are physically born in Adam.
    Only the elect are the all in Christ.. spiritual new birth defines the all who are justified.
     
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  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    So..
    Are you suggesting the Spirit of God who moves in the unseen realm would somehow fail to save one of the elect sheep?I believe Jesus died a Covenant death for all the elect sheep.
     
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  6. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity; And in sin did my mother conceive me. Ps 51

    Innocent baby David brought into this ol world of sin and woe...

    18 So then as through one trespass the judgment came unto all men to condemnation; even so through one act of righteousness the free gift came unto all men to justification of life. Ro 5

    I looked real hard Icon, I couldn't find that "or" in there. I presume you inserted it.

    And this refutes 'born innocent' how?
     
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  7. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Of course not. I'm suggesting there's a universal aspect of the atonement that includes the entire race, the removal of Adam's curse.
     
  8. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    They likely hold to the 'elect infants' restriction of the Presbyterian Westminster Confession of Faith, which the 1689 LBC slavishly followed:

    "3. Elect infants dying in infancy are regenerated and saved by Christ..."
    ARBCA Confession of Faith

    rather than, as Spurgeon corrected it:

    "3. Infants dying in infancy are regenerated and saved by Christ..."
    Baptist Confession, revised by C.H.Spurgeon
     
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  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    I hold the view Christ died for the whole world, that is, all of mankind. 1 John 2:2; Titus 2:11.
    So little childern are safe as little children, Mark 10:14-15, and so when one is of age, one must still meet the requirement of Mark 10:15. Or as Jesus told Nicodemus, John 3:3-4.

    Now those who will perish, there names are no longer in the book of life (Exodus 32:33; Psalms 69:27-28; Revelation 20:5). Only those who come to faith in Jesus as the Son of God will keep their names in the book, 1 John 5:4-5; Revelation 3:5; Revelation 21:7-8.
     
  10. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    I agree I, however I do wonder, Why. Why at conception?

    I posted the following in another thread which drew no replays - Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. James 1:13-15

    Did that apply to Adam?
    Was Adam drawn away of his own lust and enticed, for the fruit of the tree?

    Consider: And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. Gen 3:6 -----------------

    Adam's lust that brought forth sin, that brought forth death, wasn't for the fruit of the tree.

    Genesis 3:15,16 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

    Was, "her seed," adulterated (
    Definition of adulterate
    transitive verb to corrupt, debase, or make impure by the addition of a foreign or inferior substance or element ) by the lust of Adam? Matt 1:Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

    Is that why all are conceived in sin, in need of being redeemed from sin, death, and Sheol?
     
  11. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    I voted Yes, I do not believe they will be actually babies in neither Heaven nor Hell.
     
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  12. Forever Settled

    Forever Settled Active Member

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    What about the devils seed .......Christ didn’t die for them ?
     
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  13. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    As already noted, Romans 5:12ff speaks of all mankind, which is those in Adam and those in Christ. Ppl are not born neutral, as Pelagius averred with his tabula rasa stance.

    Ppl in Adam are lost, under condemnation. Those in Christ are saved, justified.
     
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  14. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    All are born dead in sin, as Psalms 51 and Psalms 58 state. Also, throw in Romans 5:12ff and 1 Corinthians 15:22. You are averring Pelagianism bruh.

    If babies are born innocent, the cruelest thing to do is allow them to grow up, become guilty, then die eternally lost.

    Those innocent babies in 1 Samuel 15 that God commanded to be killed? That makes God cruel to slaughter the innocent. :(
     
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  15. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    These questions weren’t addressed..

    Will there literally be babies in the eternal state?
    If yes, who will run the nursery?
    Who will change the diapers?
    Who will feed and burp them?
    How can babies bow their knee and declare Jesus is Lord?

    @kyredneck would you please answer these’ns? :)
     
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  16. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Me don't know. Who was the first seed of the devil? How did he/she become the seed of the devil?
     
  17. Forever Settled

    Forever Settled Active Member

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    Thats a loaded question.....I was hoping you would explain all that to me .:)

    But he devil clearly has seed .
     
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  18. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    ,you did not like the word ... or? Okay try as by one man see if that works for you and while you're at it tell me what verse says the children are born innocent you have that verse I didn't notice it
     
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  19. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Spurgeon gave an emotional suggestion, the statement in the confessions were quite correct as written.
     
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  20. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    That is not taught anywhere, not in Romans 5 for sure .
     
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