1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Backsliding vs. Having Never Been Saved

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by StefanM, Apr 26, 2017.

  1. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,793
    Likes Received:
    2,468
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So you have just called one of the most preeminent SBC evangelists and past president a fool? Fool should scripturally be reserved for those who say there is no God.
    There is no difference between indwelling and filling of The Spirit. Pentecostals would say there is, but no difference to us Baptists.
     
  2. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,793
    Likes Received:
    2,468
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If I remember correctly Bailey's statement about hearing the prayer of a Jew was very defensible. He teaches, like many other Baptists have taught for a long time, that the only prayer God hears from an unsaved person is the prayer of repentance/salvation. Bailey was saying, God does not hear the prayer of an unsaved person and being a Jew does not get their prayer heard. I do not exactly agree about God not hearing the prayers of the unsaved, but a large portion of Baptists believe it and teach it.
     
  3. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,793
    Likes Received:
    2,468
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I personally would not call a past SBC President a fool. I think he deserves more respect than that.

    Indwelling vs. Filling of The Holy Spirit, what's the difference? To a Pentecostal there is a difference, but not to a Baptist.
     
  4. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,793
    Likes Received:
    2,468
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I can say that with me, there is no comparing the old man and the new man. The change was obvious 35 years ago and still visible today.
     
  5. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Messages:
    10,967
    Likes Received:
    2,380
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I don't know about anyone else on here but you don't question something you don't have... If you question it that is evidence that you do... Backsliding?... We all go through trials, afflictions, and suffering... Some more than others... So let me ask everyone on here... How strong is your Amazing Grace?... Remember Satan may try you but he will never own you because you belong to another... And he knows it!... Brother Glen:)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    10,720
    Likes Received:
    781
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You better check again. I am not a Pentecostal, but the scripture clearly gives a command for believers to "be filled with the Spirit." If it was the same as the indwelling that all believers have, there would be no need for the command.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    10,720
    Likes Received:
    781
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Most things are defensible, not many things are biblical.

    Sure. They believe it because people like him make extrabiblical claims. That doesn't make it true.
     
  8. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    10,720
    Likes Received:
    781
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You're putting a lot of weight on the fact that he served as an SBC President. It's not a priesthood nor does it confer lifetime authority and sanction by God.
     
  9. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    10,720
    Likes Received:
    781
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And you probably are not suffering from mental illness. That's the context here.

    As a former pastor and a minister to numerous people over the past 30 years, I have worked with many people who struggle with mental illness. I have also gone through a period in my life marked by profound grief where I needed to step away from church life for about two years because the church folks were compounding my troubles with unbiblical teaching and condemnation - "If you don't feel close to God, guess who moved?"

    We are addressing a specific - and unfortunately - common situation. Please don't assume everyone else has been as blessed as you have in the mental health department.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,793
    Likes Received:
    2,468
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It references a continuing refreshing. It does not reference separate outpouring.
     
  11. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,793
    Likes Received:
    2,468
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I think it puts him above the status of "fool."
     
  12. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    10,720
    Likes Received:
    781
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That's a good point. If you are concerned about backsliding and whether or not you have been saved, then you are quite aware of God and want to be in God's good graces. Since we don't come into the Kingdom by saying certain magic words, but by a contrite heart toward God and faith, that's strong evidence.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    10,720
    Likes Received:
    781
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And that's filling of the Holy Spirit.

    Maybe you were thinking of what is sometimes called "the baptism of the Holy Spirit." That's a different thing entirely and limited to Charismatic and Pentecostal groups.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    10,720
    Likes Received:
    781
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Not sure if our friend was referencing the Sermon on the Mount by his use of "fool" (that passage is really more about insulting people - murdering them with words), but Bailey Smith has clearly spoken foolishly on numerous occasions.
     
  15. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,793
    Likes Received:
    2,468
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Does that make a brother in Christ a fool?
     
  16. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,793
    Likes Received:
    2,468
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I understand the terms. Though I am Baptist, I was educated in a Charismatic seminary.
     
  17. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,490
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I have never been much of a man worshiper.

    Or those who make a practice of saying foolish things.

    Nonsense. Christians are commanded to be filled with the Holy Spirit. Ephesians 5:18. As all Christians are already indwelt with the Holy Spirit either you are wrong or the bible is wrong in Ephesians 5:18.

    You don't speak for "us baptists." I accept what the bible says concerning the difference between being indwelt and being filled. Big difference.
     
  18. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,793
    Likes Received:
    2,468
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The filling to which you refer is literally a continual process of refreshing and not a separate filling.
     
  19. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,490
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Nobody said it was separate.
     
  20. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    9,631
    Likes Received:
    332
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Stefan, I would suggest to you that you differ from most people...not at all.

    All of us "do better" when we are walking more closely with the Lord. My prescription for your "mental illness" is to immerse yourself in time spent with the Lord in His Word, which is one of the surest ways we have to allow God to communicate with us.

    If you stay in His Word you are going to be less likely to entertain notions about other religions. All of us, having some knowledge of Scripture, can sit around and devise philosophies when we remain distant from the very Word that offers cleansing for our understandings and this is going to impact how we live our lives.

    As far as questioning your salvation, my friend...that is a great indicator of salvation, in my own view. Religious people seldom doubt their salvation, and mentally ill people are not usually aware they are mentally ill. Some, like yourself, perhaps, think they are...because that is what they have been told they are. However, if you listen to what God has to say to you, and about you, I am quite confident that your "moods" will be improved.

    Scripture demands diligence of disciples, and it isn't easy all the time, but, one thing I know from personal experience is the more time I spend with God in His Word, the more my own "moods" remain content. We can all, in the circumstances we are in, get depressed and unhappy at times. So don't overlook the resources you have as a Christian, the first being your relationship with the Lord Himself.

    As I said, I am convinced of the power of the Word of God to change our hearts and lives, and to direct the quality of life we have. Doesn't mean circumstances are going to be easy, but, we will be better able to navigate when we are seeking to be close with the Lord. As one preacher mentioned, people are always asking what God's will for their life is, and the simple answer he gives is holding up his Bible. It's right there for us to learn.

    And if you ever need someone to talk to, let me know. I was a drunk and a druggie and have some experience with court-mandated "intervention," lol.


    God bless.
     
Loading...