John 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
John 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
Mt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
See it was a part of obiedience (+John 1:33), a sign too. And for us a profession of faith and a semblance of the death, burial, and resurrection, with Christ.
:thumbs:
Baptism
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by ryarn, Mar 31, 2013.
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Our coming death and resurrection is our being baptized with the baptism he was baptized with, as in Matt. 20:23 Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with:
We still have a death and resurrection in front of us if the Lord tarries. Baptism? -
We Baptists use the term ordinance for a couple of reasons, I think. One, to make a wider separation from the RCC definition of sacrament; and two, to reflect I Corinthians 11, which Paul urged the congregation to "guard the ordinances."
A Presbyterian may very well know exactly what is meant when he hears the word sacrament. When I hear it, I think of the RCC definition.
Our goal should always be clarity, and I think the use of the term ordinance instead of sacrament meets that goal. -
The word ordinance in 1 Corinthians 11:2 only appears in the KJV version. The Greek word for ordinance in that passage is παραδόσις (paradosis). It means tradition. In the ESV, NKJV, and NASB it is translated traditions. That said, I prefer the use of ordinance because of the distance it provides from Roman Catholicism. -
The thing that seems to get lost in the shuffle is that Jesus was just as much Christ pre-baptism as He was post-baptism. This was a sign to John that the Messiah prophesied for centuries was here to fulfill all things that were preordained for Him to do.
I am a BIG believer in baptism, don't get me wrong, but it seems like too much emphasis has been put on it by some....meaning, I know some baptists that believe if you die before you're baptized, then you weren't saved. They say the same God that saves, can make them get to the water before they die.....and that's pure baloney.....water never saved one soul, but Grace did, and does. So if it's a part of obedience, and one doesn't make it to the water, then how could they be saved?.....obedience is better than sacrifice, to hearken, better than the fat of rams...... -
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I should have made myself clearer on what I posted. The ones I referred to don't believe in a deathbed repentance, except they are water baptized. -
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Even if a local church tolerates disobedience (sin), and fails to confront it, does not change the fact that the disobedience is sin. In fact the leadership of the church compounds the problem through their own sin by failing to properly discharge the duties of their office. Willful refusal to submit to baptism is sin. A church that tolerates that sin increases the scope of that sin. We see this attitude among churches all the time. Churches (really the pastors and elders of the church) that fail to discipline members, in love, over public sin issues are themselves sinning (c.f. Revelation 2:4-5, 14-16, 20; 3:2-3, 15-19). -
I've heard all kinds of false charges against the Quakers, but the Montanist one is a new one to me, and quite ridiculous.
The Salvation Army, strictly speaking, is a church (denomination) first and foremost and a Christian service organization second.
Seriously, you need to study this more. Everything you said is incorrect. -
Many disagreed from both sides of the doctrines discussed here.
For my self my baptism and this receiving the Spirit I believe is true. Others argue that we receive Him at Salvation though I do not deny that some may. I do not believe we are saved in Baptism.
MB -
Was not all of that shown in Matt. 3:15-17
Did not Jesus say, "Ye shall indeed drink of the cup and be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with"? -
The use of ordinances in KJV does raise a question in my mind. Why did the KJV translators use ordinance instead of sacrament? Just wondering. -
So it follows, if one uses the word ordinance, then one is a KJVO person.
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
The reason Jesus was baptized by John was he was already functioning as our mediator.
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He was baptized in my place. -
Joh_14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
I admit there are things none of us do nor attempt to do. To say we can't do them is defeating ones self with out trying. I've prayed for some people to be healed and they were. I've prayed for there finances and they received. I've prayed for the salvation of people and they were saved. Don't get me wrong I'm not taking credit for anything but if you believe there is no power in prayer you do not have any faith.
MB
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