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Featured Be Ye Holy, For I Am Holy!

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by tyndale1946, Dec 4, 2017.

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  1. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    He didn't 'ask'. He commanded it.
     
    #41 kyredneck, Dec 9, 2017
  2. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Brilliant! Demand what someone is not capable of doing
     
    #42 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 9, 2017
  3. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Yes. It is brilliant. The law serves as a harsh schoolmaster to drive us to Christ.
     
    #43 kyredneck, Dec 9, 2017
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  4. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Nobody is asked or commanded to be perfect. We are told to be holy. Holy and perfect are not the same thing. Holy means to be set apart for a specific task. We are no longer our own, we have been bought with a price.

    We must understand that when we see the word "perfect" in the bible it does not mean "sinless perfection" as modern day English speakers understand it. The word means "complete, mature, nothing lacking necessary to the whole." We are commanded to be perfect, to be mature, to grow up, spiritually, in Christ.

    But when God tells us to be Holy He is saying that He has set us aside for a specific purpose and that purpose should be the focus of our lives. It does not mean sinlessness.
     
    #44 TCassidy, Dec 9, 2017
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  5. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    We are to reckon or consider it so
    NAS Romans 6:11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

    HankD
     
    #45 HankD, Dec 9, 2017
  6. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    ???

    48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Mt 5
     
    #46 kyredneck, Dec 9, 2017
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  7. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    What is your question? I made it very clear. I even referenced the verse.
     
    #47 TCassidy, Dec 9, 2017
  8. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Yes. You clearly stated:

    And Christ clearly commanded:

    48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Mt 5
     
    #48 kyredneck, Dec 9, 2017
  9. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    What part of "We must understand that when we see the word "perfect" in the bible it does not mean "sinless perfection" as modern day English speakers understand it. The word means "complete, mature, nothing lacking necessary to the whole." We are commanded to be perfect, to be mature, to grow up, spiritually, in Christ" didn't you understand?
     
    #49 TCassidy, Dec 9, 2017
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  10. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Since I don’t consider Jesus to be irrational and idealistic then I’m ok with this. But I Did not ask for this type of life... always trying and always failing to measure up, I would prefer to choose my own life, calmly and carefully the way I see fit. I am over 60 and I have to provide for my family, I don’t want to be incumbered by others who want to judge me, projecting their morality on me..let’s face it the religious are always judging and projecting and it plays out continuously on BB. So if you want to shake your fingers at me go right ahead, knock yourself out it has no effect on me. I honestly find it funny because my God doesn’t do that.
     
    #50 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 9, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017
  11. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    if the law and the Christian God are harsh school masters why would anyone want to be a Christian? Why not just ignore Christianity altogether? Better yet, embrace evil, embrace sin ... heck you are being told to do something everyone knows is impossible...that’s insane.
     
    #51 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 9, 2017
  12. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I don't recall having done that.

    I don't recall having done that, nor wanting to do that.

    If whoever is doing that doesn't affect you, why do you bring it up?

    Do what. Shake His finger at you? I don't recall saying He did. Nor anyone else, for that matter.

    All I said was the contemporary understanding of "Holy" and "perfect" are not what the words actually mean.
     
    #52 TCassidy, Dec 9, 2017
  13. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    I know that, I did not say you ... I won’t mention any names here, that’s against my way.
     
    #53 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 9, 2017
  14. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    He is not and they don't.

    That is the default position for most of humanity.

    Most do.

    But you're not. Being told to be "perfect" is not a command to be perfectly sinless. It is a command to grow in grace.

    It would be if it were true. It's not. :)
     
    #54 TCassidy, Dec 9, 2017
  15. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    But your post says, right at the top "TCassidy said: ↑". If you were not addressing me why put my name at the top?
     
    #55 TCassidy, Dec 9, 2017
  16. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    If you pay any attention at all to the CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT, "sinless perfection" is precisely what's intended.

    No. That's the meaning that you are cherry picking in order to force the passage to conform to your view.

    Word: teleioj

    Pronounce: tel'-i-os

    Strongs Number: G5046

    Orig: from 5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with 3588) completeness:--of full age, man, perfect. G5056

    Use: TDNT-8:67,1161 Adjective

    Heb Strong: H8002 H8003 H8503 H8549


    1. 1) brought to its end, finished
      2) wanting nothing necessary to completeness
      3) perfect
      4) that which is perfect
      4a) consummate human integrity and virtue
      4b) of men
      4b1) full grown, adult, of full age, mature
    4a fits very well with the CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT.

    In the CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT our righteousness is to exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees. We must be 'perfect' even to the point of controlling our emotions, thoughts, and lusts. The Sermon on the Mount is an exposition of the law given by the Author of the law showing the spirituality of the law addressed to those to whom the law was given. It requires every whit of "sinless perfection" to literally fulfill it.
     
    #56 kyredneck, Dec 9, 2017
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  17. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Sorry...I used the chain of the thread inadvertently. My abject appology.
     
    #57 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 9, 2017
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  18. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Larry... but you can’t.
     
    #58 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 9, 2017
  19. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    To me part of "perfection" includes maintenance of my relationship with the Triune God.

    Mortification of the flesh, acknowledgement of know sin, self-judgement (at the Lord's Table), etc...

    HankD
     
    #59 HankD, Dec 9, 2017
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  20. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    If only the Church would understand that one point. . .
     
    #60 thatbrian, Dec 9, 2017
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