John 1:13 which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
'Not of blood......' Being born into a Christian family can't help you.
'.....Nor of the will of the flesh.....' Your own fallen will can't help you.
'.....Nor of the will of [a] man......' It is not of the words of the preacher (save as they are used by God), nor the incantations of the priest, nor the ministrations of the social worker, nor the reasoning of a friend..........
'......But of God.' Of Him alone.
Is this a discouraging doctrine? Not at all! When all our pleading and reasoning with our loved ones has come to nothing, we need not despair. One door is still open to us and we can besiege heaven with our prayers, knowing that 'the effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man [ie. one who God has justified] avails much.'
"Believing is the consequence of the new birth"
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by KenH, Aug 1, 2022.
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Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Why, if belief, is preceded by regeneration do they need to be given permission to become children of God if they are already children of God? John 1:12, ". . . to them gave he authority to become the children of God, . . ."
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Joh 1:11 He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him.
This verse is important in that is sets up the context for verse 13. His own meaning the jews.
Joh 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
This verse sets up the order in which salvation occurs. Those that receive Him (comes first) He gave the right to become children of God. (Comes after receiving Him)
Joh 1:13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
Not of blood = meaning not because they were Jews
nor of the will of the flesh = meaning those who rely on the OT law as many of the Jews did.
nor the will of man = meaning those who rely on a relationship with a patriarchal head.
You cannot ignore the context and then impose on scripture a new context based on a presuppositional doctrine not found in scripture.
Man's inability to earn his own salvation does not justify the false doctrine of total inability. -
Folks argue over such issues as when does justification occur and how soon after being regenerated is an elect person granted faith and repentance of dead works. God chose His elect before the world began and the rest takes place in time, as we creatures of God's creation are time-bound people on this earth. However, every one of God's elect can rest assured that once God chose to save them before the world began, there has never been any possibility that they would not be saved in Christ. Their salvation is not in anything of themselves, not their faith, not their repentance, not their works; their salvation is wholly in Christ from first to last. -
Silverhair Well-Known Member
Your whole comment is just one long list of bad theology and denial of scripture. But even in your errant views you make the occasional biblical comment. Now if you would just start trusting scripture rather that your philosophy. -
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Yet another Falselogy thread, denying the 13 verses that teach God bestows His blessings including election, redemption and regeneration (rebirth) through or by way of our credited faith. Thus our faith precedes the bestowal of regeneration. Any claim otherwise is nonsense.
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Silverhair Well-Known Member
But then again since you can only hope that you were one of those chosen elect, as even your faith had to be given to you, you can never be sure of what your final destination will be. You just have to hope that the faith was real and not just your wishful thinking. -
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 10:27-29 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Romans 8:33-39 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Jude 1:24-25 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. -
Essentially, being “born again”, or regenerated, does not equal salvation though it will always result in salvation.
peace to you -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
See post # 12 -
If your only desire to repeat old objections to other reformed folks views then you are missing an opportunity for dialog that may reveal some shared beliefs.
At a minimum, it would be respectful to read and comment on the sermon itself. What exactly about the sermon did you find objectionable?
peace to you -
Silverhair Well-Known Member
When you quote those verses it really is because you hope they are true for you. This is why Calvinism can not be true, as you claim one thing and have to hope for something else.
For us that do not hold to your Calvinist theology we can claim those verses and know that they are true for us. -
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The following verse is speaking of those on whom the Holy Spirit has abundantly poured out upon.
And they are not yet inheritors but yet still heirs of hope.
that having been declared righteous by His grace, heirs we may become according to the hope of life age-during. Titus 3:7
Here is what the Holy Spirit says through Paul in Romans concerning hope.
8:24,25 for in(to) hope we were saved, and hope beheld is not hope; for what any one doth behold, why also doth he hope for
and if what we do not behold we hope for, through continuance we expect -
Silverhair Well-Known Member
So while you may not like what I posted it is the reality of your theology so if you have a problem with it then change your view. -
Silverhair Well-Known Member
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Silverhair Well-Known Member
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Silverhair Well-Known Member
Quite frankly many Calvinists I have read and heard come across as being very confused. They can't make up their minds are they saved or not.
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