Do you not think that the prophets and the various saints mentioned in the OT we saved or what about the 7000 that did not bow a knee to baal 1Ki 19:18. Would that not be many?
I agree we are all saved by the grace of God and that in response to trusting in Him.
I can agree that some of them would have had an understanding that Messiah was coming but not all of them would. But all did respond to the light they were given and trust in God.
Now that would be an impossibility as none of them knew about the good news/gospel. That only became a possibility after the cross. The good news is the death and resurrection of Christ Jesus. That was not something that the OT saints would have understood.
No my arguments are based on what you and other Calvinists have stated. You may think that the bible supports your view but most Christians would disagree with you.
As I said before what you consider as support for your view has been shown to not do what you require. But you are determined to think that way but I, using my free will, have rejected your arguments as not valid. I could say the same thing to you re: your blindness to truth, regurgitate accusations etc. But then we are going to get nowhere.
Why? Don't you think your view is worth defending?
"Believing is the consequence of the new birth"
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by KenH, Aug 1, 2022.
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Silverhair Well-Known Member
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for the earnest looking out of the creation doth expect the revelation of the sons of God; Rom 8:19
Those sons/children presently have the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of adoption, correct? What does the revelation have to do with the creation? V 21 that also the creation itself shall be set free from the servitude of the corruption to the liberty of the glory of the children of God;
V 22 for we have known that all the creation doth groan together, and doth travail in pain together till now.
Are those birthing words?
V 23 And not only so, but also we ourselves, having the first-fruit of the Spirit, we also ourselves in ourselves do groan, adoption expecting -- the redemption of our body;
Are we groaning to be birthed?
In V21 where it speaks of, "the glory," is that the same glory we are heirs of not yet inheritors of in verse 17? Is that the glory spoken of in Phil 3:20,21 who shall transform the body of our humiliation to its becoming conformed to the body of his glory,.
At his coming?
Romans 8:11
and if the Spirit of Him who did raise up Jesus out of the dead [ Col 1:18 And himself is the head of the body -- the assembly -- who is a beginning, a first-born out of the dead, that he might become in all things -- himself -- first, ] doth dwell in you, He who did raise up the Christ out of the dead shall quicken also your dying bodies, through His Spirit dwelling in you.
Is that speaking of the Spirit of Adoption?
When, when will the Spirit so change the dead and alive?
8:29
because whom He did foreknow, He also did fore-appoint, conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be first-born among many brethren; ???? So born?
Luke 36:20?
Back before we got to smart for our britches, when was one's child manifested as male or female. -
peace to you -
peace to you -
Silverhair Well-Known Member
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So unless Christ can change - WHICH IS IMPOSSIBLE - my hope, my assurance, my confidence cannot be destroyed.
I will share what has become my favorite hymn. (emphasis mine)
To the tune of "Brethren, We Have Met to Worship"
Glory, glory, I'm forgiven,
All my sins are washed away.
Christ, by His great blood atonement,
All my sin has put away.
Sin imputed to my Savior,
When He died upon the tree.
As the Substitute for sinners,
God will not impute to me.
Glory, glory, I'm accepted,
Robed in Christ's own righteousness.
I'm a child, an heir of heaven,
Saved by God's almighty grace.
Christ's obedience to the Father
Is imputed now to me.
In God's sight I'm pure and holy,
He declares me so to be.
Glory, glory, I'll not perish,
In Christ's hands I am secure.
He who saved me, sure, will keep me,
By God's grace I shall endure.
This is not a vain presumption,
I just take Him at His word.
Christ has sworn, "They shall not perish
who believe on Me their Lord." -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
This reasoning is a fallacy. No one puts their trust and hope in themselves. When we give a gift to a person do we also say that the person who received the gift took part in giving the gift to themselves? We do not. The total credit goes to the person who decided to give the gift, bought the gift, and made the gift available. Credit never goes to the person who receives the gift simply because they reached out and received the gift. You are trying to apply an inconsistent logic to salvation where it dies not get applied to anything else.
the Bible says salvation is a gift (Romans 6:23) It also gives instructions on how to receive this gift (Romans 10:9-17) The receiving of the gift doesn't then give credit to the receiver of the gift. It became a gift the moment the giver offered it. What happens after that doesn't change that fact. -
Yes, the Holy Spirit dwells in the believer. "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." - John 14:16-17 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." - Romans 8:9 -
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Again, go reread my post. I made it clear. -
"My hope is not in my believing, not in my repenting of dead works. My hope, my trust is in God and His Word. My hope is in Christ. He is my assurance. Therefore, my confidence is in someone outside of me - it is in Christ." -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
"
This reasoning is a fallacy. No one puts their trust and hope in themselves. When we give a gift to a person do we also say that the person who received the gift took part in giving the gift to themselves? We do not. The total credit goes to the person who decided to give the gift, bought the gift, and made the gift available. Credit never goes to the person who receives the gift simply because they reached out and received the gift. You are trying to apply an inconsistent logic to salvation where it dies not get applied to anything else.
the Bible says salvation is a gift (Romans 6:23) It also gives instructions on how to receive this gift (Romans 10:9-17) The receiving of the gift doesn't then give credit to the receiver of the gift. It became a gift the moment the giver offered it. What happens after that doesn't change that fact. -
Nor in those five sentences did I refer to anyone other than myself. -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
My hope is not in my believing, not in my repenting of dead works."
To another poster implying that that post, and by association anyone else who holds tot heir same position, does put their hope in themselves. So quit the word game here. -
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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