believe that passage is the main "proof text" used...
I personally don't have a problem with tongues so much as the other bagge of they see Modern day Apsotle/Prophets, and the gifts of healings/miracles etc as Apostles were gifted with!
Also had BIG problem with some seeing additional fuller revealtion still coming forth from God today!
Think those of us holding to 'ceasing: mainly refer to those Apostles/prophets offices, and gifts that are revelations from god for today!
have to deind
Biblical Argument for Cessationism
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by 12strings, Sep 28, 2012.
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I am not saying writing another chapter in the Bible!
I am talking on a personal level..we have a personal relationship with God!
Isn't the title of an apostle "one sent?" Doesn't God send people today to start new churches etc.? I do not find the word missionary in the Bible, do you? -
He does not give us the date/timing of the second coming, nor visions on who to marry etc!
Apostle can refer to modern missionaries, but problem is those in Charasmatic circles hold it to mean SAME as NT Apsotles, thus their 'revelation" knowledge and teachings! -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Just curious...how did you know that you were called to the ministry? What scripture and verse did you find that in? Not that some were called, but you were called? -
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Tongues, as given as a supernatural gift by the HG, is for the single purpose of sharing the gospel in situations that God deems necessary and to show he is involved in a large way.
If someone comes to me and says I met a Chinamen and I shared the gospel with him and he was saved even though neither of us speak one anothers language, then I would say that is tongues.
This garbage that goes on in churches is only about feeding the emotional flesh and should be repudiated at every turn. To pretend you are worshiping God in this way is an abomination in worship and everyone who conducts themselves in this manner needs to repent. -
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Can you explain how that in Acts 19 it was a sign to the unbeliever? Or in Acts 10...What unbelievers were present when they began to speak in tongues?
I explained this in another thread..but will repost it again...
It turns out that "uninterpreted tongues" have been used in Israel's history as a sign to the unbelieving Israelites that God's judgment had come upon them. Paul was quoting a prophecy from Isaiah 28:11-12:
"Very well then, with foreign lips and strange tongues God will speak to this people, to whom he said, "This is the resting place, let the weary rest"; and, "This is the place of repose"-- but they would not listen." (Isaiah 28:11-12)
This prophecy was fulfilled when the Assyrian army swooped down upon Israel speaking a foreign language (an uninterpreted tongue), carrying Israel off into captivity. Paul used an example from Israel's history to show that uninterpreted tongues are sometimes used as a "sign" for unbelievers that judgment has come upon them.
Then Paul pointed out that if an unbeliever enters a church where Christians seem to have lost their minds, the unbeliever wouldn't see this as a sign of impending judgment. This is why Paul said that prophecy is much more beneficial during a church service. -
The apostles had to have seen Christ and been eye witnesses of what they testified (John 15:27, Acts 1:21-22, 1 Cor. 9:1, 1 John 1:1, Gal. 1:11-12, Acts 10:39-43, 2 Peter 1:16-19). God bore witness to the inspiration of the words revealed to and recorded by the apostles and prophets by signs, wonders, and miracles (Heb. 2:3-4, 2 Cor. 12:12).
Has a sound, scriptural case been presented that demonstrates that believers are to seek the "sign" gifts after the end of the giving of new revelation and the finishing of the giving of the New Testament? -
Pitchback
Next, I did not say or suggest the foundation was temporary, but that once laid, it did not need to be laid again with more authentication. Therefore, your arguments appear to be strawman, rather than an effort to understand my view.
1 Corinthians 3:9-11 does not mention of the sign and wonder gifts of Paul, but it does say he laid the foundation of God's building, which is Christ Jesus. And therefore, that work needed the authentication of the sign and wonder gifts. The passage goes on, i.e. verses 12-15 to teach we all now must build on the foundation of Christ with work that passes the test of fire to earn rewards.
In summary, I have posted the verses that I believe support my view that the sign and wonder gifts have ceased, and I see no need to address strawman arguments. -
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Sign and Wonder gifts
In John 4:48 we see that healing was a sign of Jesus being the Christ.
Tongues, meaning speaking in another known language without training. 1 Corinthians 14:21-22
Prophecy, meaning speaking the inspired word of God, i.e. adding to the Bible. John 14:26 suggests that those who had been directly taught by Jesus would "remember" (write the NT) all that He had taught. No need to add to that. -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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I am driven, perhaps predestined, to repeat this true story.
Thirty plus years ago when the charismatic movement was rampant in many churches I carpooled to work with a neighbor. A brilliant physicist, raised a Roman Catholic, converted at a full Gospel businessman's meeting, and at that time a member of a Presbyterian Church.
One Monday morning he shared the following experience. Over the weekend he and others had taken a young man to Spartanburg, SC. to learn to speak in tongues. Why Spartanburg I don't know. It did not work. The young man was unable to receive that particular gift of the Holy Spirit! What the impact this event had on my neighbor I really can't say. He is no longer a neighbor but it is my understanding that in time he abandoned his charismatic tendencies as did most folks around here! -
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