Biblical Chastening

Mischief now, hell then.

 

James Newman:

The punishment is to keep us from running to do mischief, but the punishment takes place in eternity, after you die. You are saying this punishment keeps you from running to do mischief in eternity. :confused:

You are not making sense.

 

I apologize if I have not been clear. The punishment takes place during the millennium. It is not to teach you not to run riot in heaven. It is to disuade you from being disobedient now. Future punishment is a deterrent to sin. Just like if you tell your children 'if you do this, I am going to spank you.'

 

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, {it is} the gift of God;
Eph 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Faith is not works. Works are a result of faith. Otherwise it's dead faith, a faith that can't save you.

 

If James said that faith without works cannot save you, then salvation is by faith and works. If James is talking about eternal salvation, then thats how you get it, faith plus works.

 

That is exactly what why God chastises us in this life, to straighten us out, because He wants to conform us to the image of Christ. It would be so much easier if God would just take us to heaven at the moment of salvation, but He has chosen not to. He left us here for a reason. Once we die, chastisement serves no purpose, as the sin nature will be gone and the corruptible will put on incorruptible.


Jhn 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

Those of us who have obeyed the gospel of Christ will not see the wrath of God.

I do not live in fear. I have a Savior that saves in the complete and perfect sense.

 

This isn't about living in fear. It's about believing God. God does chasten us in order to have us conform to the image of Christ. But why? Because Christ's kingdom is going to be glorious and there is not going to be anything in it that offends, including you and me if we don't conform to the image of Christ.

 

So let me get this straight. We (according to the false teaching of ME) will suffer in hell the wrath of God in the Millenium so that we will behave now?

 

It's time once again to play, "Fix The Bible!" Can you tell me what's wrong with this verse?

Bzzzt wrong! We're supposed to fear 1,000 years in fire prepared for the devil and his angels so that we'll behave!

So, for $100 and a free trip to the kingdom, can you Fix The Bible?

Ding ding ding! That's correct! And for those of you who didn't get the answer, we give you a free copy of the ME Home Game, complete with charcoal and matches to practice your tolerance to fire!

 

No, thats backwards. If you don't behave now, you will suffer in hell. :godisgood:

 

Works are works, even if you try to backload them onto being born from above.

 

Wait a second----I'm just getting in on the conversation and can't believe what I see here

You mean---if I don't behave HERE on Earth as a Christian----God is going to send me to Hell

Baptist Purgatory???

Give me a break, James N!!!!

Thats like me telling my 12 year old son

"Boy!!! You done went and done bad wrong---but I'm not gonna correct you until you're 22 years old!!!"

No---see?? My boy does wrong---and judgment/execution of correction is immediate

 

Paul separated them very easy, I can see where you are having trouble understanding it though. Could be because of that early Catholic teaching, who knows, I don't.

Sure hope you don't call scripture a bunny trail again!!
Rom 7:25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

If this is Catholic, then that is another thing they have right.

Rom 8:13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

This covers both, walking in the flesh or Spirit and sinning after being saved.
5: For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6: For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7: Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8: So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9: But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10: And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11: But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12: Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13: For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

1Cr 2:16For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
And you say, with the mind of Christ the inward man can sin. Christ does not think that way, He says "get behind me Satan".

 

James, I went right to the end after this thread seemed to go astray, so someone else might have pointed this out so here is my take on your inquiry: God has a reason for chastising His children:

To modify their behavior so that He can bless and reward them in this life:

Hebrews 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
​

The fruit of righteousness is its own reward.

HankD

 

It is because of sin we receive chastisement.

Jer 30:14All thy lovers have forgotten thee; they seek thee not; for I have wounded thee with the wound of an enemy, with the chastisement of a cruel one, for the multitude of thine iniquity; [because] thy sins were increased

Jer 30:15Why criest thou for thine affliction? thy sorrow [is] incurable for the multitude of thine iniquity: [because] thy sins were increased, I have done these things unto thee.

 

Amen. Not only is punishment delayed, but according to ME, you won't have a clue what tipped the scales and got you 1,000 years in the lake of fire. Just ask them. "How much unconfessed sin, and what severity of sin will it take to offset your good works to the point where you end up in hell for 1,000 years?" Or "How many good works must I perform in order to offset any possible unconfessed sin in my life, so that I may avoid 1,000 years in hell?"

You'll either get ignored, or get an answer you can't possibly understand. The latter makes the most sense since you're essentially talking to a lawyer. ;)

 

I wonder where did the doctrine that the "saved" will end up in hell, come from? In all my 35 years of ministry, I have never heard this doctrine that the blood washed band would spend some time in hell, until I came on BB.

 

I agree, Bob. I've listened to the preaching of many denominations including even those that are "out there". I never heard anything like this, and I would never have expected it on a Baptist board.

 

I heard of it sometime before the BB. I was talking to a Baptist pastor that told me about it (he believed it) and it blew me away that someone could sell the blood of Christ that short. I wander when the idea started getting a following? Because from what I understand, there has been a book published called "The Rod, Will God Spare It?" by Joy Faust, forwarded by Greg Dixon, who is a widely known Baptist. the book is dedicated to expounding this doctrine.

 

This goes far beyond selling the Blood of Christ short. It perverts the very gospel that redeems a fallen man from sin. It is a heresy in its clearest form.