Bushites Split As Gitmo Abuses Continue

cmg...I'm not a Democrat. I live in Canada.

As for the rest of your comments I will not stoop to your level.

 

Oh, you already stooped to my level with your cute question about nationalities. Just can't be fair, can you? There are many types of prisons....

You and Ed are propping up the Democrats on another one of their phoney issues. You may hurt America with this left-wing stuff but in the long run you will be discredited. It is the Arabs who will believe you the most.

 

No I didn't stoop to your level asking you a question. I had a valid reason for asking you the question, based on things you had said before.

You had no valid reason for slandering me though. I may hurt America? I don't want to, nor do I have the power to. Don't take things so seriously dude...you may have an ulcer.

 

I don't mind America being held to a higher standard as long as it is done honestly.

However it does stick under my craw when there is no sense of perspective. The "abuses" at Gitmo and Abu Ghraib, even if true in the worst possible ways, pale in comparison to the normal operating procedures of our adversaries.

I haven't heard of us filming decapitations. We aren't bombing markets where they might show up... or just to hurt people we suspect of actively or passively supporting them. I haven't seen their dead, mutilate corpses hanging from any of our bridges. I haven't heard of our people using real physical torture to include progressive dismemberment.

Clean it up? Yes. Try to cast it as indicative of the overall effort? No.

 

Well, the point is that you and Ed have complained that Jesus would not allow humiliation of any kind--and I just cut the part out of my Bible about the moneychangers because of you two--but you never said anything about locking a murderer up with nothing but a Koran and after many questions you finally told me that, no, Jesus would not lock a man up with a Koran--so that seems to be a very serious problem by your standards as to why these men are being given a Koran since you and Ed seem to think that Jesus would not give them a Koran. Why aren't you protesting this part of what you have said that Jesus would not do?

 

Hey KJ, Some are reporting that al Qaeda may have nuke planted in Chicago...

You may want to consider a move to Alberta.

 

ScotJ...lol....maybe I should eh?

No doubt if the abuses are true they are pale in comparison to what is done to Americans. But some people here support the same being done back and that is not Christ like. The honourable thing would be to just imprison them minus any torture, etc. or to kill them.

cmg...what do the moneychangers have to do with this?

 

Yep, the moderate solution -- the
honorable solution -- the Christ-like solution -- the American solution.

Revelation 14:9b-11 (KJV1611 edition):

If any man worship the beast and his image, and receiue his marke in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drinke of the wine of the wrath of God, which is powred out without mixture into the cup of his indignation, and hee shall be tormented with fire and brimstone, in the presence of the holy Angels, and in the presence of the Lambe:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth vp for euer and euer. And they haue no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoeuer receyueth the marke of his name.

Not that Jesus has anything against torture
Still i say "torture and humuliation is
un-American" and
"torture and humiliation is un-Christian.

Those of you without the gift of Discernment
who cannot tell the difference between
a moderate and a liberal need to check out the
discussion over here:

Blind guide to Moderate and Liberal

Those who cannot discern between a conservative
fundamentalist and a liberal hyper-fundamentalist
are welcome there also. See, the 'normal' line
from left = Liberal to right = conservative
(with a 'moderate' in the center) is long gone
So those left of liberal and right of conservative
end up on the loop of the circle and you can hardly
tell them apart

 

Good post EdEdwards.

I want to thank the moderator for editing a certain comment intended to slander me. I appreciate it.

 

What evil are referring to? The alleged "torture" that has yet to be found but continues to be asserted? There have now been several comprehensive investigations into these matters and none have revealed evidence of our military torturing any prisoners or detainees in this war as a matter of policy or practice.

This type of "humiliation", if you want to call this, was NOT an approved interrogation technique regardless whether some of those who did it "thought" it was or wanted it use that excuse as a defense for their actions. These soldiers knew better. Several persons from top to bottom of the units involved, including the commanders, have been brought to task over these incidents. The Commanding General, responsible for the proper handling of the prisoners, was reduced in rank to Colonel over these incidents. This is a major consequence for a person of that rank. That should be a clear message that America does not approve of this conduct.

The conduct was not representative of our military’s standards for handling prisoners of war or other detainees. It was the result of specific failures of individuals in these units instigated by some "sick" persons, compounded by poor understanding or enforcement of regulations, procedures, and doctrine, driven by poor unit morale, and not properly checked because of poor unit leadership. Meanwhile, many other units and individuals have performed very well upholding the standards which we expect.

Other types of "humiliation", such as sleep depravation, isolation, intimidation, fear, etc., with proper approval, were and are legal interrogation techniques. Again, the full Geneva Convention "rights", if they can be called that, do not apply to the terrorists. They are not "prisoners of war" in the sense that soldiers of a recognized enemy state would be. We do not want to afford them those "rights". They are akin to spies and saboteurs. They do not deserve to be so recognized under the Geneva Convention. They do not deserve the same due process as citizens and residents of this nation do in criminal proceedings. Doing so will further compromise our ability to fight terrorism around the world. These are terrorists!

Show resolve – Support the Cause!

There is no comparison between the "humiliation" of terrorists by interrogation and the suffering Jesus Christ endured on the cross. It is truly degrading to make that comparison to our Lord’s sacrifice.

Terrorists prey on their fellow mankind and use the most evil methods to do so. They are acting as agents of Satan and, while the Lord may have among them those He has chosen – we know not what’s in their hearts, we must judge them and deal with them here and now according to the law of warfare as prescribed by our civil government.

Jesus Christ came to fulfill the Father’s will which mandated that He be crucified as an atonement for the sins of all those He chose as His children so they might be presented blameless to the Father who can not look upon our sinfulness.

[ July 18, 2005, 09:45 PM: Message edited by: Dragoon68 ]

 

I appreciate it also. There is
no need to 'nuke an ally for Jesus' today.

Church mouse guy: " ... you and Ed seem to think that
Jesus would not give them a Koran ... "

Strange, i haven't answered your question yet but you
know what the answer is going to be? I don't think so.
Why do i need to post if you are going to divine
my posts ahead of time?

I predict the way we treat Muslims today will be the
way Americans are treated in the coming Tribulation period.

 

Yeah interesting how he "knows" what you are going to say eh Ed?

I bet you you are right on your prediction...

 

If the terrorists would treat those they take captive only half as well as we have treated those we've detained so far, it would be a tremendous improvement. Unfortunately, we can expect them to continue the past unlimited evilness regardless how we treat them.

If other nations will treat members of our military taken prisoner by them as well as we have treated the prisoners of war we have held, then we can be certain they will be treated very well. Many nations do honor, to one degree or another, the Geneva Conventions and that is a tremendous blessing to those taken prisoner on any side.

Terrorists are not representatives of a state or a religion. They are just plain terrorists going about Satan’s work.

Until every last one of them is killed or captured, tried, found guilty, and executed, the video taped beheadings, the market place suicide bombings, the indiscriminate killing of people, and the fear of going about everyday life will continue.

 

Hey Dragoon...nobody is denying that the terrorists are wrong. Nobody is denying that they are wicked. We fully agree. What we don't agree on is how to deal with them. Kill them in a firefight? Fine. Torture? No...that makes you no better than them. It is simple to comprehend when you try.

 

"...and the fear of going about everyday life will continue."

Not for a Christian. We are not to live in fear.

There's a song we used to sing at my old church:

some may trust in horses,
some may trust in chariots...

but we will trust...
in the name of our Lord...

 

The terrorist detainees are NOT being tortured and I haven't suggested that they should be. I have made that very clear in my postings on this matter. It should be easy to comprehend.

 

That's a good thing Dragoon. I hope nobody ever does. Then we may just all get along.

 

As Christians we have trust, or hope as it’s also called, in the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ that, in the end, we are secure in our salvation. We have a pardon from the just punishment of our sinfulness. We will face death but will be raised from that death into an eternal life with our Lord.

We also look to the Lord to comfort us in our walk on this earth and give us strength to face our fears and to know that they are only temporal but, my friend, there is much around us to fear in this life. Fear – real deep fear – has made many a “foxhole believer”.

We - especially the strong - are not to live with our eyes closed and our hands tied behind our backs. God ordained civil government to administer justice with the sword as necessary to reduce the fear and suffering of His children in this life. That is our duty and I pray America will continue to have the ability and the will to carry that sword on behalf of its citizens any where any time any place it is necessary.

 

I don't deny that it is possible to fear. The opposite is true. That is why we are told not to fear. I've been in situations where I was scared spitless and the Lord was there to help me through and show me I don't have to fear.

I think if it is the duty of a Christian to take up arms and kill people it takes a special kind of person. Not everyone can do that.

 

Amen, Brother King James -- Preach it!