See - here's the crux of the matter - the way you have presented this - you believe that God looks down the corridors of time and sees who will choose Him, then, based on that knowledge of the future, selects them for salvation.
That is - "I am elected because I selected." or "I chose God, so God chose me" - in other words synergism.
Calvinists believe that God is Sovereign over the entire plan of salvation - that before God started the process of time, God knew - or foreknew His elect and came into covenant among the Trinity that the Son would redeem the elect and be glorified for it. That is - His elect were predestined for communion with Him as a part of an eternal covenant to glorify the Son.
That is - "I am elected becauseGod selected." or "God chose me, so I chose God." or monergism.
The monergistic model is the clear God-centered message that the Bible consistently teaches teaches throughout.
I miss understood.
I thought you were differenciate the bottom one not between Synergism and monergism.
That's what I get for not reading the whole post.
No, sir.
They "select" themselves to salvation and God foreknows about it!
And it is not the "corridors of time" -- it is "supratemporality."
God exists outside of time seeing every instant at once.
And He promises to those who believe that they will be "elect."
That is a 'small mind' at work.
Those 2 mean totally different things to me and scripture.
If you follow them -- "I am elected" = "God chose me."
You have put 2 ideas in totally contradictory order.
First, correct me if I am wrong, but there is NO 'covenant of grace' or 'covenant among the Trinity' mentioned in scripture.
It is a fabrication of Reform Theology.
And, yes, God did "author" the plan of salvation.
But know what?
God is "supratemporal."
He exist outside of time.
It is Christ with Whom we have to deal ("ONE mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ" 1Tim 2:5).
So guess what?
You don't know and He doesn't know if you are saved/elect.
Youre' just like any sinning schmuck that He "doesn't KNOW" (Mt 25:12) unless you believe!
Sorry, but that is NOT the message of "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved."
And it's not the message of "that whosoever believeth on Him shall be saved."
The "monergistic model" is grossly unscriptural, jdl.
Yeah, yeah.
Psa 3:8
'smitten all mine enemies ... broken the teeth of the ungodly.'
Would you ever consider this to be temporal in application??
Perhaps I should ask you, then, what I asked James --- when are you going to cooperate with God?
Surely you can't believe that you live monergistically your whole life.
At what point do you come over that live as I do, cooperating with the Spirit?
The "sheep", in context, are made up of both Jews and gentiles: John 10:16 "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd."
BTW, the point of the quote was to demonstrate that Jesus does in fact know who are the elect and who He will bring to salvation.
The other sheep, IMO, are the jews who come to Christ during the tribulation period, which further reinforces the "elect" referring to "true" Israel.
Christ's ministry on earth was for the jews...not the gentiles.
Your views are not supported by the context of the passage, or any other scripture. It makes no sense to say they are Jews, since they would be considered in the same "fold" as the other sheep. The Jews are the Jews, in the time of Christ or during the tribulation.
John 12:20 "Now there were some Greeks among those who were going up to worship at the feast.....saying (to Philip) 'Sir, we wish to see Jesus'.....(23) and Jesus answered them (Philip and Andrew), saying, The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified.... "
The "other sheep" are Gentiles. When the Gentiles began to seek Jesus, Jesus then knew His hour of crucifixion had come.
Who was Jesus' minstry geared towards? Clearly, Scripture points to the jews. It makes perfect sense. Jesus' ministry was not geared to a nebulous group calvinism refers to as "the elect".
Don't you believe that the Bible itself often refers to the Elect? It is not a Calvinistic construct.So, in your mind the Elect are "a nebulous group"?!Is the biblical teaching concerning the Elect and Election also nebulous?!The answer from a true believer is "Of course not!"The Elect are from among Jews and Gentiles alike -- from every nation,tribe and language.Jesus met with a number of Gentiles in His ministry who were, or became saved. ( People don't 'become Elect').
Rip, you're still pulling from "Satan's dictionary," bro.
Elect in the Bible is not a term that only means 'saved' or 'to be saved.'
You're not ever going to come to understanding of the truth using your errant terminolgy.
In fact, your terminology is the reason we talk past one another so much and make no progress in growing "in the UNITY of the knowledge and faith of Christ." Eph 4:13.
We're drinking "sweet tea" and you're drinking "Long Island Tea" (an alcoholic beverage)!