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Featured Calvinist Confusion

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by steaver, Jan 9, 2019.

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  1. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    I have no problem being called a Calvinist because I know what is meant by the term. Charles Spurgeon understood it's meaning to be more narrow than embracing the totality of Calvin's theology. I have advanced beyond being upset when opponents of Calvinism call me a determinist or fatalist. A person can call me whatever they want. I simply refuse to argue from another person's premise. In most of the debates on the BB that I have participated in about Calvinism, I have tried to offer a biblical defense. I just choose to ignore pejorative statements since they are wholly subjective and expose my interlocutor's inability to engage in a meaningful debate. For a time I used the terms Monergist and Synergist in substitution of Calvinist and Arminian but I finally came to the conclusion it was naught else than stepping on eggshells. I have since decided to pick and choose which discussions to participate in. I am still of the opinion that the real audience for these discussions are those who read them but seldom post. That makes engaging and disengaging from BB discussions much easier.

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  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I think most of the time we not only consider "Calvinism" to be only a part of Calvin's theology, but also his theology as refined and worked from Calvin until the response of Dort. There are questions that came about post-Calvin that are important to what we'd view as "Calvinism".

    For a while the "Doctrines of Grace" was a common phrase around here. I don't know that it ever caught on.
     
  3. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Charles Spurgeon must have been ahead of his time, as he viewed Calvinism as synonymous with the doctrines of grace. He saw the term's meaning as self-evident when used in a Baptist context. Truthfully, how many regulars on the BB do not know what is meant by Calvinism? Any Baptist who believes in infant baptism and Presbyterian ecclesiology is not a Baptist, so the use of the term among Baptists is just as narrow as Spurgeon's use of the word in the 19th-century.
     
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  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I think the confusion comes in when Baptists hold views apart from a Calvinistic (original use) origin. So much Reformed doctrine is assumed even by baptists who reject the five points. Even the Arminianism is indebted to Calvin.

    So I could be called a "Calvinist" by some but my views mean I contextualize the issues differently.

    This could be significant as more Baptists are "reforming" their Reformed views.

    Otherwise I think we risk a false agreement.
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    So you would thus deny that the Fall made it impossible for sinful humans to believe on their own in Jesus to get saved then?
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Do you hold to original Sin as affecting all humans with a sin nature, and thus Jesus had to be Virgin Born to bypass being effected by it?
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Doctrines of Grace is what most Calvinistic Baptists though would be in agreement with, not Presbyterian aspects of John Calvin, nor of Covenant theology proper!
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Calvinism among Baptists circles would be excluding those things such as infant baptism, and also to the use of Confessions, as those holding to use of Confessions tend to hold to Covenant theology proper, save for the infant issue!
     
  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Nope.
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    So Jesus was born with same sin nature that we all were?
     
  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    You already know that I believe Jesus had the same human nature we have.

    What's with the questions like we've never discussed this before?

    I believe sin a spiritual issue - not a genetic one.
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    So he then would have a sinful nature...
     
  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No. He would have a human nature. Unlike us He did not sin.
     
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  15. Cavell

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    Maybe try highlighting God did so love the WORLD! The verse doesn't say for God so loved those in the world he had already elected.
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Do we have a sin nature?
     
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Go to the appropriate thread and re-read our conversation.
     
  18. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Of course it doesn't. But Calvinists have their own definitions for Biblical words.

    All: The elect
    Draw all Men: Regenerate the Elect
    Everyone: The elect
    Whosoever: The elect
    World: The elect

    Mystery: The way God decrees sin but is not responsible for it.
    Mystery (2): Any theological issue held to by Calvinists that contradicts scripture and they cannot explain.

    As to John 3:16, the Calvinist's dictionary has this:

    John 3:16: Enigmatic verse. One must be a scholar to properly understand this passage. James White’s unbiased insights are recommended.
     
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  19. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Alright, exegete this verse...

    He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.[John 1:10]
     
    #119 SovereignGrace, Jan 12, 2019
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  20. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Alright, explain these two verses...

    “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.“[John 3:16]

    I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours;[John 17:9]
     
    #120 SovereignGrace, Jan 12, 2019
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