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Featured can catholics Go To God Directly In prayers?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Yeshua1, Jun 22, 2012.

  1. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    In the body of believers everyone is a preist. However, some members function as the church administrators and have special functions that only apply to them. In the Catholic Church The bishop conveys the sacraments and his priest support and help him with that. The layity do not have that function but are responsible for evangalization, they can baptize, etc...
     
  2. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    It is not practiced by infidels because infidels cannot pratice it as commanded here "IN CHRIST."

    There is no claim to special ability to forgive in this passage but only a claim to EQUAL abiltiy to forgive which is explicitly stated in James in the words "ONE ANOTHER" which by the very definition of the terms includes the one who is confessing as also the one to be confessed unto or it is not something done "ONE TO ANOTHER"

    1. Is this command limited to Elders only - Jas 4:11 Speak not evil one of another

    2. Is this command limited to Elders only - Jas 5:9 Grudge not one against another

    3. Nor are these commands limited to Elders - James 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another,
     
    #122 The Biblicist, Jun 29, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 29, 2012
  3. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    You sit in blindness ignoring the truths of the Bible, making statements that have no foundation in Scripture.
     
  4. Fred's Wife

    Fred's Wife Member

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    The New Testament knows of only one priesthood and that is the general priesthood of all believers (1 Peter 2:5,9) The Old Testament priesthood was fulfilled in Christ. Jesus Christ is our High Priest, and every believer is a priest to offer the sacrifice of praise to God through Jesus Christ. (Hebrews 2:17; 3:1; 4:14-16). The apostles were never called priests. There are instructions for selecting pastors and deacons but there are no instructions for selecting priests. There has never been a "special" group of priests in the New Testament church. The "hierarchy" of priests in the RCC is not biblical.

    Jesus Christ is our only Mediator and High Priest:

    1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

    Hebrews 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

    Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

    Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

    Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

    Priesthood of all believers (no hierarchy or special group of priests):

    1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

    1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

    Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

    Revelation 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
     
  5. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Yet we can see James directing Christians to purposely call the Elders or Presbyters which had a specific Function. In James 5:14
    where
    is seperate from other members.
     
  6. Fred's Wife

    Fred's Wife Member

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    Sorry TS, but I don't read Greek and I have no clue as to what you just posted in Greek.
     
  7. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    No one is a priest for any one else--NO ONE!
    We are a kingdom of priests and kings BEFORE God, not before men.
    We cannot intercede ON BEHALF of anyone.
    That system was done away with in the OT.

    1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    There is only one mediator, one person that can come between man and God, and that is Christ himself. No priest can do that work.

    Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
    Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
    Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

    1. We have a great high priest, a priest that is much better than any of the OT priests, a priest that is far better than any earthly priest, a priest that puts all RCC priests out of business if you would believe the Bible.

    2. He was tempted in all points like as we are. He can empathize with us in all our trials. An earthly priest cannot do that.

    3. At any time, any moment we can come straight before his very throne of grace in time of need and find mercy, grace and help. That was not so in the OT, and it is not so in the RCC. Only Christ can do that.
    And all of that is not Biblical.

    Look at your example that you gave, and consider the context.

    2 Corinthians 2:5-10 But if any have caused grief, he hath not grieved me, but in part: that I may not overcharge you all. Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many. So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.
    --Understand what Paul is talking about here. The one that caused grief is someone that had committed a serious sin. You ought to forgive him. It may have been the same person in 1Cor.5:1-5 who had committed gross immorality, but now had repented. Upon repentance he should be admitted back into the church but the church was reluctant to do so. Paul had written a stern letter about their lack of forgiveness or their unwillingness to accept his repentance and forgive him for his wrong. It was a stern letter.
    They should accept him "lest such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow."

    Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.
    --Again, show your love toward this one who has repented.

    For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things.
    --This is the reason Paul did write that letter. That they might obey. He wanted "proof" of their obedience. He wanted to see a demonstration of their willingness to see them forgive this man.
    This last verse is a bit ambiguous in the KJV.
    Look again in the WEB

    2 Corinthians 2:10 Now I also forgive whomever you forgive anything. For if indeed I have forgiven anything, I have forgiven that one for your sakes in the presence of Christ,

    He is saying that he is with them in forgiving this person. As you forgive this person so do I. The sense is: I have confidence in you, as a church, that as you forgive this person's offense, I shall approve of the act.
    Paul did not forgive anyone's sins.
     
  8. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    You lie.
    Presbuteros is the word for elders, another title for pastor.

    Acts 20:17 And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.
    elders = presbuteros.

    Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

    They were the same group of men referred to here, episkopos, the overseers of the church, the same group that were commanded to feed the flock--the pastoral work. All three functions refer to the same man or men. They are different titles for the same person--the pastor.
     
  9. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    You can quote in Portugese and it still does not teach what you are claiming. Of course the elders have a specific function but it is not to act in the function of a "priest" over others! Praying for "one another" is a command to all Christians in general. However, the elder is "given to prayer" and study of the Word but that does not make him a "preist" over others any more than it would the members who pray FOR THE ELDERS.

    James is one of the earliest books written. During that period of time there was no N.T. Scriptures and God revealed His will to the churches concerning their membership functions and responsibilities through gifted elders (Acts 13:1-2) whose revelatory gifts were also confirmed by sign gifts and a plurality of such elders so that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every prophecy could be established. Part of the sign gifts was the ability to heal. That is why they called the elders as these sign gifts were still operative until the New testament revelation through N.T. prophets was finished and confirmed.
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    basically, the Lord asks us to have the Elders in the church pray over the person who is physically sick, annoiting them with oil...

    THAT person being prayed over, IF he has lifted to God a prayer to be forgiven, God will hear and spiritually heal him, and physically also if in the Will of the Lord!

    nothing in there supporting the elders either healing the person themselves, not absolving his sins either!
     
  11. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Yes, Very much Yes. And is the administrative leader of the body and that was what I meant.
    Yes prayed over by the elders.

    God Heals, God Forgives. However, that passage shows the elders acting out what Jesus already commanded in John Chp. 20 which is clear if you read it.

    However, I've shown that the whole body of Christ are a priesthood. But some members take the administrative leadership role these are the presbytery which is split into 3 classifications The Episkopos (Bishops), Presbyters (priest), Deaconate (Deacons).
     
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