Can God originate a thought?

They do too if I understand them & they add Human involvement to the equation. Then the real deal killer is Limited Atonement. It was difficult for me until I read more scripture & had to make a decision if I really loved Christ enough, could I put aside my human need to interfere, to control, to interject my human thoughts into Gods dealings. Once I put that aside, I could better understand why God is God & I'm not. What helped was truly reading & understanding Job, Jeremiah & Paul (Especially Ephesians & Romans) but there I go again projecting my human need to NOT hand it over....It was all of Christ & The Holy Spirit leading me to the truth. It is ALL of God dear brothers & sisters.....none of man.

 

No- they do not.

One cannot believe that God is less than eternally Almighty and all-knowing and still believe that is ACTUALLY God.

In order for God to be GOD in ANY orthodox Theology Proper he must be eternally Almighty and All-knowing. Otherwise he is not GOD by DEFINITION.

When we say that God is EXHAUSTIVELY sovereign we are simply saying that God is GOD.

When they say he is NOT they are simply saying that he is NOT God.

 

To me your preaching to the Deacons Pastor Luke...... It Be Da "FOLKS" you need ta sermonize to. :godisgood:

you saw my signatures, right?

 

Scripture

Hebrews 11:
31 By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient.[Or unbelieving]

32 And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson and Jephthah, about David and Samuel and the prophets, 33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies. 35 Women received back their dead, raised to life again. There were others who were tortured, refusing to be released so that they might gain an even better resurrection. 36 Some faced jeers and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. 37 They were put to death by stoning;[Some early manuscripts stoning; they were put to the test;] they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated— 38 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, living in caves and in holes in the ground.

39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, 40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.


How much better we have, the promise has come and we can look back to it.

God has always placed two roads before us. To believe and be saved or not and be condemned. It has always been God responsibility to seek us.

2 Chronicles 16:9
For the eyes of the LORD range throughout the earth to strengthen those whose hearts are fully committed to him. You have done a foolish thing, and from now on you will be at war.”

We didn't have to understand, just believe and it is God who makes are way straight or direct our path.

Deuteronomy 30:
The Offer of Life or Death
11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.

15 See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. 16 For I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in obedience to him, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws; then you will live and increase, and the LORD your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess.

17 But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, 18 I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess.

19 This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live 20 and that you may love the LORD your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the LORD is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

God can do what He wants to and we can try, but you can't put Him in a box and sell Him and say this is my God. He can't do this and that because of my understanding of a sovereign God and He can't do it because of that. I say He can do what He wants to do and you can't change it.

God does love the world that He sent His Son and does want all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. God shows no favoritism all men have a chance to follow Jesus when He is lifted up. Jesus places two roads to believe in Him and be saved or not and continue to condemnation. So choose life and live. He made us the messenger of it.

 

:rolleyes:

You mean like you, who lacks the courage of your convictions to just ADMIT that you believe the sinful intent of every heinous crime ever committed eternally existed and thus must have originated in the mind of God?

My view confirms infinite divine omniscience but denies unfounded finite conclusions based upon such affirmations. If you are consistent and objective then you would see that you do the EXACT same thing with regard to the question of the origin of evil. Be objective Luke. Look at your view with the same scrutiny you view mine.

Luke, brother, such statements of posturing only highlight your insecurity and lack of understanding regarding the discussion at hand. We both appeal to mystery when it comes to the infinite omniscience of God. You do so in regard to evils origin and I do so with regard to man's freedom. Since the bible is VERY clear about God not being evils origin or even the tempter of man, I believe my view to be more biblical. Now, you can deal with the content of this discussion or continue with your posturing...which is really quite embarrassing for you, IMO.

So, you still haven't answer my question regarding the sinful intent of men eternally existing in the mind of God thus finding its origin there... Why are you avoiding answering that question? Are you shrinking God by saying he doesn't originate sin? *GASP* How dare you!!!

 

From your view it would seem that you believe God is actually satan as well.

 

:laugh:

So is Adam, and Luke, and me, and you. After all, in Luke's view, God is doing everything, making all the decisions, and determining all the desires. He is the ONLY determining agent after all, so in that regard we are all "God."

So, why did Satan want to be himself? :applause:

 

In other words, God is not all knowing. But what was it that God said when Adam and Eve ate the fruit? "He has become as one of us to know good AND evil." These things were in the mind of God before any of it was in the mind or heart of the sinner, and yet, God cannot be charged with the crime.

We do not do the same thing at all. God knew it. God ordained it, and yet all He has done is good.

And it was done for Christ.

You can't say God is all knowing and knew nothing of evil before its advent. If in your mind that means God is the origin of evil, then so be it. I'll take the testimony of the Spirit that it is otherwise.

 

Satan serves God's purposes. Do you?

 

I affirm that God is omniscient, but I do not affirm that God's omniscience of evil necessitates his causing/creating/determining of evil.

Just as we both affirm that God is 3 persons, while still affirming His oneness.

The attribute of omniscience, like that of the trinity, is an infinite and mysterious divine characteristic. It is not subject to our linear, time based, finite logic. I refuse to go beyond the revelation of scripture, which clearly teaches that God doesn't even tempt men to evil, much less originate evil.

Again, I don't have any problem affirming God knowledge of evil, but I'm not the one who believes that foreknowledge necessitates cause/predetermination.

You don't appeal to mystery with regard to the origin of evil as Luke did earlier?

So, do believe that Satan's intent to 'become like God' originated in Satan or God?

 

Only is a orthodox theological sense. :laugh:

Old Luke has let learning go to his head. He is so wrapped up in theological definitions, he has forgotten that God is a being, not a list of theologically dead precepts.

 

You might want to ask yourself that question. Oh wait, God might want to put it in your mind to ask yourself that question. Then, God can answer it as well! :laugh:

 

You tell me, you're the determinst. I don't serve satan's purposes, do you?

 

No, you do not appeal to mystery- you DENY the omniscience of God OUTRIGHT.

You just lack the courage to ADMIT you do.

Answer this question:

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT GOD HAS ALWAYS KNOWN ALL THERE IS TO EVER KNOW ABOUT EVERYTHING?

 

That is your god.

My God is infinite is power and wisdom. That is the ONLY TRUE God.

Satan is powerful and knowledgeable.

That is the extent of the attributes you grant your god.


If I am wrong then answer this question:

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT GOD HAS ALWAYS KNOWN ALL THERE IS TO EVER KNOW ABOUT EVERYTHING?

Let's see if you have more backbone and conviction than the toter of your banner- Skandelon.

 

Let's let the Law be our instructor. If one of knew that his ox had a tendency to push with his horns, and he did not take steps to ensure the safety of our neighbor, and the ox gored him, who is responsible?

 

Now you finally resorting to questioning my salvation, pastor? My reply was based on you "God is the ultimate cause of sin" view. Your comment is apparently whats in your heart.

 

So, now you are equating the foreknowledge of a man and the impact it may have on his neighbor with that of our infinite God?

It sounds like by this reasoning you have just conceded that God is culpable for not intervening to stop evil, is that right?

 

No more so than you do when you appeal to mystery regarding the origin of the evil intent.

I have clearly admitted what I believe but you hide what you believe by avoiding to answer the question I first posed. Why?

Ok, but before I answer it I need to know, what does "ALWAYS" mean to an eternal and timeless being? Does that mean God eternally knew of Satan's and Dahmers and every other man's evil intent in such a way that those intents originate in the mind of God? Explain that to me and then I'll answer your question.

 

First, I've never toted anyone's banner.

Second, why do you resort to personal attacks upon my "backbone and conviction" when I'm the only one of the two of us that has explained my view on the subject where as you keep hiding behind this same mantra.

Third, why don't you just come out and admit that you don't believe in evangelism? Don't you have the backbone and conviction to just admit what we all know you really believe? How does that feel?