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Featured Can you prove by Scripture

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by agedman, Oct 3, 2021.

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  1. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Great. God spoke. You were made alive and heard him speak. You believed, after you heard. Your faith came after you heard.
    MB, you, yourself reject faith before grace in the above comment you just made.
     
    #101 AustinC, Oct 8, 2021
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  2. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Not true I sought God, am still seeking Him just to be with Him For me it won't be long maybe sooner than you might think.
    MB
     
    #102 MB, Oct 8, 2021
  3. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    then you have been and are His.

    So, the Scriptures are inaccurate when they state of those who are not His:
    2God looks down from heaven upon the sons of men to see if any understand, if any seek God.
    3All have turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one.
    4Will the workers of iniquity never learn?
    ​
    Paul, after quoting a longer section of this Psalm stated:
    22And the righteousness of God is through faith from Jesus Christ toward all those believing.

    For there is no distinction, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,25whom God set forth as a propitiation through faith in His blood, for a showing forth of His righteousness, because of the forbearance of the sins having taken place beforehand, 26in the forbearance of God, for the showing forth of His righteousness in the present time, for Him to be just, and justifying the one of the faith of Jesus.​

    Therefore, by being His, you were impressed by the Holy Spirit to seek Him.

    We all sometime forget the the Jews of the OT were/are His, so verses in which “seek” is used is proper for such reflects the ownership of God. However, the Psalms is stating that those outside the ownership of God do not seek God.
    The writer of Romans expresses the ungodly in these terms:
    13Their throat is a grave having been opened; they keep practicing deceit with their tongues;
    the venom of vipers is under their lips,
    14of whom the mouth is full of cursing and of bitterness;

    15their feet are swift to shed blood;
    16ruin and misery are in their paths;
    17and the way of peace they have not known.f

    18There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
    ​
    Because by your own testimony you sought and seek Him, you were and are claimed by God as His.

    ​
     
    #103 agedman, Oct 9, 2021
  4. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Why do you attempt to speak for me? You weren't there you don't know unless your Gnostic fore knowledge showed it to you. In the first Place it is obvious the scripture your quote above is said by a fool. All sinners believe this is true of those saved. I too thought Christians were all fakers. They were only pretending and is why the fool starts off with

    Psa 14:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

    These are the words of a hypocrite. He actually thinks he is better than the saved. Being the fool that he was means he was not saved Calvinist have taken this out of Romans and say this is the state of man before Christ saves them. Yet the Bible never says that at all..

    There are lost men who have sought God and I'm one of them. Was the Holy Spirit causing me to do this? I don't really know I do know Paul never said that Rom 3:10-20 is the state of men before Salvation. I believed he mentioned this because it is what he him self thought of the Christians before the vision on the road..Paul hated Christians as I did myself before Salvation.I thought they were all as described in Romans 3:10-20.

    The passage it's self is accurate to what the fool said but wrong about whom he was speaking.
    MB
     
    #104 MB, Oct 11, 2021
  5. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    agedman;
    If you would just look at the context you would see Romans 3:8 Paul even says we are "slanderously reported" Don't you see verses 10-20 is the slanderous report Paul is talking about.


    Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

    We know this statement is not true it does not point out just who is the subject but instead includes all because it says None that seeks God. The man who wrote about it sought God him self. He was merely telling us what those who are not saved thinks of the saved
    MB
     
    #105 MB, Oct 11, 2021
  6. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    @MB. You posted:
    It is right that you acknowledge the work of the Holy Spirit “causing you” to seek God. That is part of the work the Holy Spirit does (He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment. John 16). Fools turn away to pursue their own schemes of bringing glory to themselves and giving no thought to the judgment that awaits, rather taking pleasure in conjuring more evil. Folks conceive the thinking that certainly their own stink of sin is not as bad as others. But one’s own dung never smells as bad as others, but it is still dung, and still stinks.

    With out this work of the Holy Spirit, you would not have sought solution.

    Paul discusses what I call the declining depravity (for all have sinned-depravity) of the unsaved in the first chapters of Romans after his touching greeting. You andI can both attest to such declining depravity not only as it is displayed in the society at large, but those who are fakers or weeds (as the scriptures call them in the parable) within even the leadership of the church.



    I commend you on your holding to the authority of Scripture above any person’s writing and view. Such independent reliance is noteworthy and commendable.
     
    #106 agedman, Oct 11, 2021
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  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Natural man, unsaved lost sinners, at war with God and do not seek Him to save them !
    They cannot receive the Gospel message if left to themselves!
     
    #107 Yeshua1, Oct 11, 2021
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  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    You were chosen by the Father to now be in Christ, as you did not choose that first!
     
    #108 Yeshua1, Oct 11, 2021
  9. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    I never claimed that I acted alone but at the time. I was not aware of just where the conviction was coming from How ever you are wrong about seeking God. The moment I started seeking God was the moment that I discovered that I was a sinner on my way to hell. Up to then I never thought of my self as a sinner. As far as being at war with God I wasn't aware of that either. I did not hate God. I hated those who said they were Christians because to me they were fakers who like to look down there noses at others who they believe are no Earthly good, Because of financial reasons .Instead of Spiritual...
    MB
     
    #109 MB, Oct 11, 2021
  10. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    That was the moment God started dragging you out of the well and you became aware of God awakening you. You weren't seeking God, God was drawing you.
     
    #110 AustinC, Oct 11, 2021
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  11. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    The Bible says clearly;
    Eph_1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

    Trust is the same thing as faith
    MB
     
    #111 MB, Oct 11, 2021
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Due to His election towards us!
     
    #112 Yeshua1, Oct 11, 2021
  13. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    No sir unless less maybe if you are Jew. Are you a Jew?
    MB
     
    #113 MB, Oct 11, 2021
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    ALL of the saved are part of spiritual Israel, both Jews and Gentiles!
     
    #114 Yeshua1, Oct 11, 2021
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  15. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Not true according to scripture only the Jews are elect to be a people unto God. You're assuming that because you claim election it makes you Jewish,. It doesn't.
    Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
    MB
     
    #115 MB, Oct 11, 2021
  16. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, you have to reject Paul's letter to the Romans and to the Galatians since Paul explicitly tells you that Jews, Gentiles, slave, free, male and female are a part of the elect. No matter how loud you make this assertion, you will always be wrong.
     
    #116 AustinC, Oct 11, 2021
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  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    he does seem to almost teach 2 Covenants of salvation, one for Jews, another for we gentiles !
     
    #117 Yeshua1, Oct 12, 2021
  18. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Non sense there is only one.
    Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved
    .
    You on the other hand claim a false doctrine of only the elect can be saved.And that calling on the Lord saves no one. Your in denial of scripture.
    MB
     
    #118 MB, Oct 13, 2021
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    ALL saved in Christ are the elect of God, so not elect, Hell bound!
     
    #119 Yeshua1, Oct 13, 2021
  20. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Consider the following argument

    If the doctrine of Unconditional Election is true:

    Then God prefers that not all be saved.

    But the Bible says that God prefers that all be saved
    (1Ti_2:3-4, 2Pe_3:9, Eze_18:23, Eze_18:32, Joh_12:32).

    Therefore, the doctrine of Unconditional Election must be false.

    God is the one who ultimately chooses and He chooses to save believers who are in union with His elect mediator, Jesus Christ.

    Consider this, if election / predestination is all settled before creation then salvation is like a lottery. You have to have your number come up or you are lost before you are born. What most people that hold this view will not admit is that even if you think you are one of the elect you can never be sure.
     
    #120 Silverhair, Oct 13, 2021
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