MacArthur is a Baptist or at least walks in Baptist circles.
Daniel Steele was a defender of the Methodist-Wesleyan and Holiness movement. He believed that we are living right now in the Millennial Kingdom. He also believed in entire sanctification. He may have been a saved man, and even a scholar but his beliefs are as far from Baptistic as one can get. He was a forerunner of the Pentecostal movement.
Why should we trust what he has to say on any of these doctrines?
Then don't quote such people. Those statement are biased and non-factual. That is obvious. That is like trying to prove the pre-mil position is wrong by using Steele because Steele denies the Millenium in the first place. It doesn't make sense. He is biased.
And you are going to take the words of a Holiness person to prove that?
You prove it. Where is your documentation?
Read MacArthur again. He goes through the Scripture verse by verse. I challenge you to refute what he has to say: verse by verse.
You cannot do it, can you?
Post #171 is my explanation, and Post #178 I quoted some from MacArthur.
Carnal or Lost
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Servent, Jun 12, 2014.
Page 11 of 11
-
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Winman.......DHK is making mincemeat out of your foul posts......give it up.
I am a neutral observer....just trying to stop the carnage of your misguided posts.... -
I will leave you with this, the rare Calvinist who believes Romans 7 describes an unregenerate man;
So much for 1 John 5:4-5;
1 Jhn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
What a dummy John must have been, thinking that a Christian can overcome the world. Too bad he didn't know folks here at BB that could tell him Christians are utter failures who cannot possibly do the good things they want to do to serve God. :rolleyes:
This is the error of Calvinism. -
For every one of those infractions was a carnal and sinful post.
1. Those particular posts demonstrated your "slavery to sin" at that time. You chose to be a slave to sin rather than a servant to Christ.
Often when the Bible uses the word "servant" or "slave" they are used interchangeably. The Greek word "doulos" is translated either way--slave or servant.
Each post you made you were not a servant to Christ were you? Then whose servant were you when you wrote those posts that earned you infractions?
The same holds true for any person, of course, for any person that writes carnal things in their posting. They write out of their flesh. God is not in it. They are a slave to sin. They choose sin over Christ. The desire to serve Christ must come from the heart. It is active not passive.
Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
1. The blood.
2. The Word of their testimony--This is not passive. This is preaching. It is standing up for what one believes. We are not just "overcomers" by sitting behind our computers all day on our comfy couches. That is not an overcomer; it is a fast track to the undertaker. :)
3. They loved not their lives unto death. It speaks of the activity in preaching the word in the face of adversity. Again, not hiding in the safety of their homes.
Your idea of 1John 5:4 is flawed. You can't overcome when you are not going forward. If the vehicle stays in park or neutral it doesn't "come over" any ground at all. One needs to go forward and fight for the victory. -
But hey, who would know that better than you? -
The offense was posted by the infraction, such as "insulting others."
Even if you tell the truth, but don't tell it in love it is sin, isn't it?
Besides, it was an example. There are many examples.
There are Christians who were saved out of alcoholism, and have on occasion gone back to drink. Are they still saved?
There are Christians who have not been faithful to their wives. Are they still saved?
There are Christians that cheat on their taxes (probably regularly). Are they still saved?
If you make judgments on these people you are no better than the Calvinist who has already judged (in most cases), that you judge for the very same reason. -
Pro 27:6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.
A true friend will tell somebody the truth, even if it insults him. If all you want to do is be friends with everybody, maybe you should enter politics.
Pretty ridiculous that I should have to tell you this. This is BASIC Christianity 101.
We will just have to agree to disagree. -
You would try and convince the policeman that you were not "really" breaking the law because you were "only" going 10 mph over the speed limit and everyone else was going faster.
But you did break the law, right? (an example)
But now you are saying that an insult (though the truth) is not sin, even though it is clearly stated as such in the BB rules. As in the above example it is breaking the law. But human rationalization says: "No, I really didn't sin." Right!
"Sold under sin" is descriptive of the unsaved, but applicable to the saved.
Look at the rest of the chapter. The rest of the chapter is clearly a believer's struggle that he has between the two natures (old and new) that now dwell within him.
If that is not true, then tell me what sense does it make for the chapter to end this way:
Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
How does an unsaved man thank God through Jesus Christ his Lord?
Please answer! -
I meant to comment on this
Beth -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
The phrase "inward man" is NEVER used by Paul for a lost person in Scripture.
Ro 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
2Co 4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.
In regard to the Phariseeical Jew, Jesus uses the phrase "inward" as following:
Lu 11:39 And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness.
The willingness to always do good is the characteristic of the "inward man" in Romans 7:14-25 as it is a "law" operating within him in contrast to "the law of sin." However, the issue is about ABILITY of the "inward man" to DO good rather than the lack of DESIRE to do good.
There is a civil war going in the Person of Paul, and Paul defines precisely what aspect of him is "sold under sin" and what aspect wherein "the law of sin" dwells and what aspect is subject to death - "that is, in my flesh...my members....this body of death....". He clearly separates and identifies precisely what aspect of him desires to sin and what aspect of him does not desire to sin. Hence two laws are at work in him and they are in conflict with one another. The law of sin abides in "the flesh....my members...this body" whereas the law of God abides in "the inward man...my mind..."
The issue is Power or ability for the "inward man....my mind" to defeat the law of indwelling sin IN MY FLESH. The solution to this problem is also clearly stated. The solution is identified or found with self but with Christ - the Spirit of Christ (Rom. 7:24) which is explained in the next chapter. -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
-
-
Why is there always so much talk about this Calvin dude anytime a thread gets really long?
Should be a new rule: No talk of Calvin EVER. :laugh: -
-
oh ...
You were SERIOUS??? -
That is why the scriptures call it the "wounds" of a friend. They say something to you that hurts your feelings, it insults you, but it is for your own good.
This also holds for being "captive to the law of sin". No Christian is a captive to the law of sin and death any more, we have been made free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
We are not under the law anymore. Yes, we sin on occasion, but that sin will not bring eternal death as it did when we belonged to sin. We died to sin with Jesus and rose with him to new life. The law and sin has absolutely no hold on us now, we are free.
I can't believe I am having to explain this to a born again Christian. -
Even when the law says "Thou shalt not steal" I can do it sometimes depending on my situation.
It's okay to break the law depending on my situation you say.
Even if at the time of registration you agreed to the rules, one of which that states "insulting others will not be tolerated," you believe it is perfectly okay to break the rules and yet not sin. You believe you are above the law.
I suppose that is a good example of "being sold under sin."
It is allowing your mind to believe you can do wrong continually and actually believe you are not doing wrong. That is about as good an example as one can give.
What does 1John 1:8,10 say about those who believe they don't sin?
Sin and death always go together. The sin of a Christian will separate him from God spiritually. That is spiritual death. You cannot be reconciled until you confess your sin and repent of it. You may be free positionally but not practically. Thus we have 1John 1:9 in the Bible for a purpose. To restore our fellowship with him we must come and confess our sin to him.
The law is holy and good Paul said. He also said it is our school master. It shows us our sin, and our sinfulness. The law is not bad. It is the sin that is bad.
Paul talked of the sin that dwells in him.
You have not answered this question yet.
Paul cries out: O wretched man that I am; who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Then he answers:
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord...
How does an unsaved man say: "I thank Jesus Christ our Lord"?
Please answer! This is at least the third time I have asked this and yet without response. -
Winman, DHK ...
Do either of you actually think you are going to change each other's minds?
This debate goes on seemingly endlessly between you two. It's spilled over onto at least a half dozen threads in the last two months.
Give it a rest, already! Neither of you are ever going to give an inch. Your efforts are wasted.
Page 11 of 11