Is this an example of 'early heresy'? Seems to be saying this was learned from the Apostles themselves.
'For Christ also said, 'Except ye be born again, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.' Now, that it is impossible for those who have once been born to enter into their mothers' wombs, is manifest to all. And how those who have sinned and repent shall escape their sins, is declared by Esaias the prophet, as I wrote above; he thus speaks: 'Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from your souls; learn to do well…And though your sins be as scarlet, I will make them white like wool; and though they be as crimson, I will make them white as snow...And for this [rite] we have learned from the apostles this reason. Since at our birth we were born without our own knowledge or choice, by our parents coming together, and were brought up in bad habits and wicked training; in order that we may not remain the children of necessity and of ignorance, but may become the children of choice and knowledge, and may obtain in the water the remission of sins formerly committed, there is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins, the name of God the Father and Lord of the universe; he who leads to the layer the person that is to be washed calling him by this name alone…And this washing is called illumination, because they who learn these things are illuminated in their understandings. And in the name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and in the name of the Holy Ghost, who through the prophets foretold all things about Jesus, he who is illuminated is washed." Justin Martyr, First Apology, 61 (A.D. 110-165).
Catholics Come Home
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by steaver, Dec 29, 2011.
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It is one of the reasons I don't base my faith on the ECF. I wouldn't have any faith if I did. The Bible is my standard of truth. It is my final authority in all matters of faith and doctrine. The ECF contradict each other. The Bible never contradicts itself. I know what the Bible teaches. I also know what heresies the RCC teach. I used to be one. Thank God I have been delivered. -
I hope I'm not going off the trail here. I have read that it was the Reformers who separated sanctification from justification to a degree previously unheard of in Christian history. For example, church historian observed:
(bold mine)
"The significance of the Protestant distinction between justification and regeneration is that a fundamental intellectual discontinuity has been introduced into western theological tradition through the recognition of a difference, where none had previously been acknowledged to exist...Despite the astonishing theological diversity of the late medieval period, a consensus relating to the nature of justification was maintained throughout.
The Protestant understanding of the nature of justification thus represents a theological novum..."
Iustitia Dei, page 215
http://www.scribd.com/doc/30830464/mcgrath-iustitia-dei
Is their evidence that anyone in church history believed in these distinctive doctrines, such as baptismal regeneration and its relation to justification and sanctification before the Reformers? -
Thinkingstuff...
You posted...
She may very well have been a wonderfull humanitarian, but she was no christian.
Here is clear evidence....
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/mothther.htm -
The link I posted above does not seem to be working, that was Alister McGrath in his book Iustitia Dei.
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What do you think an Anglican would say?
Ask Matt Black? He is one. They agree with Catholics in more than 90% of everything. -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Here is one little caviot of the RCC's that I find particularly interesting. All things are in addition to Christ. The roman catholic says, 'Of course we believe in Christ, but you must also believe in the Church (theres of course is the true & only real one), you must believe in the Virgin Mary, you must believe in the saints, you must believe in the priesthood (a Sacrament even) in addition'. Therefore I must and did, part company. Its always a Christ plus the Church, plus the Virgin Mary, plus the priests, plus the saints & so on. Christ alone is not enough & He does not stand in all His unique glory at the center. Oh I almost forgot about all the "observing days" with all those special beliefs (Holy Days of Obligation.... Assumption of Mary & Full Abstinence ("Chuck your Diocesan for all your current regulations, as if the Local bishop had the rules for your relationship with Christ")
So it's always CHRIST PLUS something & the RCC church gives that essential addition. So as the apostle puts it plainly ("For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision avails anything nor uncircumcision, but faith which worketh by love") The false teachings of the RCC will always demand that their adherents must add on some plus, some action on their own part.
FAITH IS NOT ENOUGH! -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
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But, by your belief, you couldn't account them as Christians. And yet the Quakers were "doers of the word" more than any other Christian church. -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
With all do respect to you and your experience, and with all the liberals misleading people you may be on target with your experience. However, let me clarify some things.
However all belief are surounded by Jesus Christ and his teachings and institutions.
Just wanted to clear that up. -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
However, dispite the fact you are taking a advisarial role I will clear up for you a simple truth. Catholics Believe that protestants who have faith and maintain a Trinitarian view, a belief in the Virgin Birth, the life death and resurrection depicted in scriptures, a coming judgment, and life everlasting are indeed christians and may be saved through God's grace. Though the Catholic Church believes them to be without certain graces to help them in this life. -
Then shall the Priest say,
If so, could you help me by pointing out where in the bible Philip or Peter did anything like that?EEING now, dearly beloved brethren, that this Child is regenerate, and grafted into the body of Christ's Church, let us give thanks unto Almighty God for these benefits; and with one accord make our prayers unto him, that this Child may lead the rest of his life according to this beginning.
As far as Philip is concerned, the only times recorded in the bible when he baptised both specify that the candidates for baptism were already believers in the Lord Jesus Christ. Acts 8.12 refers to him baptising people at Samaria (my emphasis):
But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.Then there is the Ethiopian eunuch, in Acts 8.36-38 (again, my emphasis):
36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, "See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?" 37 Then Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." 38 So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.What of Peter? Well, I know he preached baptism in Acts 2.38:
Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."Then there was the household of Cornelius in Acts 10.47-48:
47 "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.I must have missed something, because in all the cases I have mentioned, the baptismal candidates already believed, they were already Christians.
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"If you are a good Muslim, then be a good Muslim; if you are a good Hindu, then be a good Hindu, if you are a good Catholic then be a good Catholic, etc."
--If that is the theology that she held: that salvation is not through Christ, then she certainly is not in heaven, is she?
1277 Baptism is birth into the new life in Christ. In accordance with the Lord's will, it is necessary for salvation, as is the Church herself, which we enter by Baptism.
I'll take that one at face value.
1277 Baptism is birth into the new life in Christ. In accordance with the Lord's will, it is necessary for salvation, as is the Church herself, which we enter by Baptism.
--If that is your belief you are not born again. That is not what the Bible teaches. That is what the RCC teaches, and they are diametrically opposed to each other.
Let's go on with the heresy of the RCC:
1278 The essential rite of Baptism consists in immersing the candidate in water or pouring water on his head, while pronouncing the invocation of the Most Holy Trinity: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
1279 The fruit of Baptism, or baptismal grace, is a rich reality that includes forgiveness of original sin and all personal sins, birth into the new life by which man becomes an adoptive son of the Father, a member of Christ and a temple of the Holy Spirit. By this very fact the person baptized is incorporated into the Church, the Body of Christ, and made a sharer in the priesthood of Christ.
--This superstitious heresy, that baptism can forgive original sin is anti-biblical, and a doctrine of the devil. Only the blood of Jesus Christ can forgive sins. Water can never forgive sins. If this is what you believe you are not born again. The new birth has nothing to do with baptism, as the RCC claims.
(Psa 1:1) Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. -
Thinkingstuff...
Regarding Mother Teresa's heretical beliefs, I posted this linked material in post 64 of this thread...
Here is more documentation. The link is from the reputable catholic tv channel ewtn....
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
Just a note as I tried to obtain this link there was not connection so I think the phrase is still up in the air. Until I get actual proof. -
Thinkingstuff...
Sorry about the ewtn link.
I fixed it. The link in post 76 works now. (See the "Quotes of Mother Teresa" box) -
I have seen these commercials as well---very well done, from a PR standpoint (if not somewhat factually misleading).
About 9-10 years ago when I began questioning my Southern Baptist upbringing, I actually looked into the RCC claims. I used to own such books as 'The Gospel According to Rome', 'A Woman Rides the Beast' and 'The Two Babylons', but when I stumbled upon some RCC apologist websites (to read the 'other side' after reading James White's debates on his website) they actually made some pretty good points on some things. I then read books by Scott Hahn ('Rome Sweet Rome', or something like that) and Steve Ray ('Crossing the Tiber' and 'Upon this Rock'). These books made some valid points, but at the end of the day I just couldn't 'cross the Tiber' since: (1) I couldn't accept Marian dogmas as necessary for salvation (since such aren't found in the original apostolic preaching/deposit); and (2) I couldn't accept certain Papal claims (again finding the Biblical and historical evidence for these to be weak); and (3) there still seems to be a lot of Medieval baggage involving the whole (treasury of) superogatory merit/indulgences/purgatory complex.
So for a while I looked into the Eastern Orthodox Church but finally settled on classical Anglicanism as best embodying the faith of the ancient catholic church. That's not to say the world wide Anglican Communion is not without it's problems (particulary in the increasingly apostate ECUSA and the Church of England). Thankfully I've found a local mission parish that's part of the new conservative ACNA.
(Now I will duck while the invectives are hurled my way... :smilewinkgrin: ) -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Actually my wife likes the Anglicans but stays away from Episcopal's in the USA. Perhaps after my argument with The right Rev. John Shelby Spong that she got involved in. Id be interested in learning more about this movement....are they apostate like these liberal candy arsed episcopal's are?
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