Featured Children who die

Oh, I'm quite familiar with Hebrews. When I was first getting serious about my faith more than 30 years ago, I spent quite a bit of time in Hebrews because it helped me make sense of the whole Exodus story. It is also exceptionally doctrinally dense.

Moreover, I have been reading it at least once a day for the last month in preparation for the "Hebrews Initiative" that I am participating in beginning in a few weeks. I have spent much of my time thinking about the argument made in Hebrews - one thing follows on another. You can't just pick out proof texts and expect that you will understand it without reading everything before - as well as the multiple texts it references and quotes.

The author is writing to Jewish persons. Those who are addressed are of the same physical lineage, so they are brothers and sisters. They are not necessarily brothers or sisters in Christ.

This is a difficult phrase because we often associate it with the meanings in the Pauline epistles instead of what may be a very specific contextual meaning here. In the Exodus, all of the children of Israel participated in the events leading to their freedom from Egypt, the crossing of the Sea, the miraculous water and food in the wilderness, and the constant manifestation of God. Yet many refused to trust God. The comparison being made here may well refer to the working of the Holy Spirit in the life of a person before they take the meaningful step of faith into the Kingdom. Since the author of Hebrews is using an enormous amount of Jewish imagery, it could also be a comparison to the water provided by God in the desert (water imagery is sometimes used in scripture - think Isaiah and the illustration of "living water" in Jesus' teaching). This interpretation would go well with the next phrase:

This could be a comparison to the manna (that tasted like honey, see Exodus 16:31) in the wilderness. The scripture (aka word of God) has a precedent as being something tasted (Ezekiel 3:3 "eat this scroll"; Jeremiah 15:16 "sweet as honey in my mouth"; Revelation 10:9-10 "sweet as honey")

In other words, these persons had taken the word into themselves - they had consumed the message.

This could very well parallel the receiving of the Law.

And the tabernacle worship.

Yet they did not enter into rest.

This interpretation follows the Exodus and wildness journey - chronologically - up to the point where they rebel.

Do you see the development of the theme of the children of Israel who had every reason to trust God, but didn't?

Moreover, if we claim that these people are true believers who somehow work their way out of God's transforming work which contradicts all kinds of teaching about the perseverance of the saints.

 

Where do you find that distinction of 'true believers' in the NT? Where in the scriptures does it say that [1] His redeemed, born from above children cannot commit the sin of unbelief, or [2] that Christ's atonement does not cover the sin of unbelief? I say both these notions are wrong.

Hard times fell upon these Jewish Christians and they fell away/turned back in their hearts unto Egypt just as their forefathers in the type did, and just as Christ prophesied that some would. You judge them to be children of the devil. I cannot/will not do that.

[add]

...and that's quite some gymnastics there in your last post, all in an attempt to disprove what the text describes them as, i.e., brethren, partakers of the Holy Spirit, tasted the good word of God, received the knowledge of the truth, sanctified by the blood of the covenant, the LORD's people.

29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

That is NOT referring to the old sacrificial system or to the temple worship.

 

In the Shadow of Death–The Little Ones Are Safe With Jesus

Another Baptist and I had a "more than spirited discussion" regarding the fate of those who die in infancy on the DOG forum! I presented an article by Al Mohler with which I agree and which I have presented on this forum in the past {http://www.albertmohler.com/2005/01/05/in-the-shadow-of-death-the-little-ones-are-safe-with-jesus/}. Part of Mohler's argument is as follows:

 

Mohler makes a true assessment, we're all going to be judged by our deeds done in the body. Not sure about his application, to children that die, of 'the second generation' that entered the promised land, which incidentally is NOT a type of heaven.

It is consistent throughout the scriptures that it's actually the second born that obtains the favor of God, not the firstborn, i.e., Cain/Abel, Shem/Japheth, Ishmael/Isaac, Essau/Jacob, Leah/Rachel, Mannassah/Ephraim, First/Second Wilderness Generations, Saul/David, First Covenant/Second Covenant, First Man Adam/Second Adam (and doubtless many others):

It was not Cain's sacrifice that God had respect for, but it was Abel's; 'Cain was of the evil one, and slew his brother....Because his works were evil, and his brother`s righteous.' [1 Jn 3:12]

Shem was the elder brother of Japheth, but, 'God enlarge Japheth, And let him dwell in the tents of Shem...' [Gen 10:21 ASV & 9:27]

It was Ishmael, the firstborn, that was born after the flesh, and he persecuted Isaac, the second born, that was born after the Spirit. Isaac was the child of promise; Ishmael was cast out. [Gal 4:29]

It was said of Esau and Jacob, 'The elder shall serve the younger. Even as it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.' [Ro 9:12,13]

It was not Leah his first wife that Jacob loved, but it was Rachel his second wife. [Gen 29:30,31]

It was Ephraim the younger that Jacob blessed over his older brother Mannassah and in spite of Joseph's objections. [Gen 48:13-20]

It was not the first generation of the exodus that entered into the rest of the promised land, it was the second generation; 'But your little ones, that ye said should be a prey, them will I bring in, and they shall know the land which ye have rejected.' [Nu 14:31]

It was not Saul the first king of Israel that would do all of God's will, but it was the second king David that was a man after His heart; '...Saul the son of Kish...when he had removed him, he raised up David to be their king; to whom also he bare witness and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after My heart, who shall do all My will.' [Acts 13:21,22]

It was not the first covenant of the law ( I desire mercy, and not sacrifice) that God had pleasure in, but it was the second covenant of grace; '....a better covenant, which hath been enacted upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then would no place have been sought for a second.' [Heb 8:6,7]

Consider 'the first man Adam' vs. 'the last Adam, ' ... that is not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; then that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is of heaven.' [1 Cor 15:45-47]

 

And then there is this: {http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1245734/posts}

 

And as it is appointed unto men once, to die. Heb 9:27 For as in Adam all die. 1 Cor 15:22 Even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Cor 15:22 But after this the judgment: Heb 9:27

What I believe to be the chronology of those two verses.

What say each of you? Are you judged before you die. After you die? After you are made alive in Christ?
Are children inclusive in, men anthrōpos?

Psa 16:10
For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell (shĕ'owl, from LXX ᾅδην Hades) ; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Peter speaking in Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell (Hades), neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. V's 30,31
Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell (Hades), neither his flesh did see corruption.

Psalms 116:3,4 The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of hell (Sheol) gat hold upon me: I found trouble and sorrow. Then called I upon the name of the LORD; O LORD, I beseech thee, deliver my soul.

The resurrection of Jesus was a birth from death, a birth, a deliverance of the soul from Sheol/Hades.

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. John 3:7

Children who die?

 

The thoughts of John Gill's, that great Baptist preacher, on those who die in infancy!

John Gill, A Body of Divinity, page188

John Gill’s, A Body of Divinity, can also be found online!

***********************

John Gill on 2 Samuel 12:23

 

That's some good info OR.

David, concerning his child that died:

22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who knoweth whether Jehovah will not be gracious to me, that the child may live?
23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me. 2 Sam 12

Samuel said something similar to Saul:

19 Moreover Jehovah will deliver Israel also with thee into the hand of the Philistines; and to-morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: Jehovah will deliver the host of Israel also into the hand of the Philistines. 1Sam 28

 

But....but we aint Calvinists!:laugh:

 

http://www.lifeway.com/n/special-emphasis/hebrews-initiative

"To remain faithful in a faithless society". I wish the movement Godspeed. It is certainly a noble endeavor as it has been in all ages. I pray for revival often.

"Doctrinally dense" is a good depiction. Hebrews is so thick with types I tend to revert to speaking in 'type mode'. But, 'Hold fast and don't go back' is a consistent theme throughout the epistle to those beleaguered persecuted Hebrew Christians:

6 but Christ as a son, over his house; whose house are we, if we hold fast our boldness and the glorying of our hope firm unto the end.
14 for we are become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence firm unto the end: Heb 3
14 Having then a great high priest, who hath passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. Heb 4
23 let us hold fast the confession of our hope that it waver not; for he is faithful that promised: Heb 10

There was to be no repentance granted for those that fell away and returned back to that apostate system that killed Christ, because by returning they crucified the Son of God afresh and put him to an open shame (Heb 6:4-6), but there was only a certain fearful expectation of judgment which would devour the adversaries before that generation passed away (Heb 10:37), for those that had trodden under foot the Son of God and counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing and done despite unto the Spirit of grace (Heb 10:27-29) by falling away back to the apostate Judaism they been delivered from.

THAT is a very crucial message contained within the book.

 

There was a time when Hebrews was my favorite Book in the Bible. I saw it as a summary of GOD's purpose of the redemption of HIS people as revealed in all of Scripture. Then I spent six months or more teaching the Epistle Ephesians to a bunch of old men {Saints} like myself and I said to myself: "It don't get any better than this!"

But then it occurred to me that without the Book of Genesis, particular the first three chapters none of it makes any difference. Therefore, I just told myself: "The Bible is my favorite Book of the Bible!". Now it is difficult for me to get on the same page with Ezekiel and I have trouble with Job and some of the minor prophets. Some of Job's buddies seem to have something to say that is worthwhile but GOD apparently thinks otherwise, and I read: Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

But if I cannot understand all I would wish in Job I can understand that wonderful message GOD has for us: 23. Oh that my words were now written! oh that they were printed in a book!
24. That they were graven with an iron pen and lead in the rock for ever!
25. For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26. And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
27. Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

 

Amen OR!

I rejoice at thy word, As one that findeth great spoil. Ps 119:162

...and he didn't even have the complete book as we do!

 

I wish you two would teach a bible study class on line....Hint Hint!:smilewinkgrin:

 

Would you agree by reading Acts 2, that David believed at death his soul would be in Hades/Sheol? And that by Peter saying that David had not ascended into the heavens and was both dead and buried, that the soul of him, on that day was still in Hades/Sheol.

Now exactly where was the child of David, that day of Pentecost, following the death and resurrection of Jesus?

Peter says that David was not speaking of himself but of the fruit of his loins, that by resurrection, the soul of the Christ would not be left to Hades/Sheol.

 

25 For David saith concerning him, I beheld the Lord always before my face; For he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26 Therefore my heart was glad, and my tongue rejoiced; Moreover my flesh also shall dwell in hope:
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul unto Hades, Neither wilt thou give thy Holy One to see corruption.
28 Thou madest known unto me the ways of life; Thou shalt make me full of gladness with thy countenance. Acts 2 [Ps 16]

Peter is quoting from a Messianic Psalm where David is articulating through the Spirit the words/thoughts of Christ, not pertaining to David himself.

Related thread:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1824694#post1824694

Concerning David's son, Sheol, the waiting place of the righteous, etc., I don't know what the correct sequence of events were/are. It seems there was a designated destination for the righteous though.

 

I agree with you in the other thread that those Psalms are speaking of Jesus the Christ and or are voiced as the Christ being the speaker.

I will give another which I believe very important to understand as Christ being the speaker. Psalms 116:8-10 For thou hast delivered my soul from death, mine eyes from tears, and my feet from falling. I will walk before the LORD in the land of the living. I believed, therefore have I spoken: I was greatly afflicted: - relative to as used in 2 Cor 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak; - we believe, because by the Spirit, we have the faith of Christ.

Let me rephrase my other question. If, because of the resurrection, the soul of Christ has departed from or has not been left in Hades/Sheol, does that not imply that the soul of David and his son are still in Hades/Sheol?

Will they also, by necessity, have to be resurrected in order that their soul not be left in Hades/Sheol?

 

I had previously written:

Moreover, if we claim that these people are true believers who somehow work their way out of God's transforming work which contradicts all kinds of teaching about the perseverance of the saints.

Beyond all of the teachings of Jesus that deal with believers demonstrating that they are followers of Jesus by being persons of transformed character by bearing good fruit, being productive, and living a life of compassion for others, we can look past the gospels to see this principle laid out specifically:

“It is not as though the word of God had failed. For not all those who are descended from Israel are truly Israel, nor are all the children Abraham’s true descendants; rather “through Isaac will your descendants be counted.” This means it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God; rather, the children of promise are counted as descendants.” Romans 9:6-8​

“Notice therefore the kindness and harshness of God—harshness toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness toward you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. And even they—if they do not continue in their unbelief—will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.” Romans 11:22-23​

“For we have become partners with Christ, if in fact we hold our initial confidence firm until the end.” Hebrews 3:14​

“If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we deny him, he will also deny us.” 2 Timothy 2:12​

“For if after they have escaped the filthy things of the world through the rich knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they again get entangled in them and succumb to them, their last state has become worse for them than their first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than, having known it, to turn back from the holy commandment that had been delivered to them.” 2 Peter 2:20-21​

“They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us, because if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But they went out from us to demonstrate that all of them do not belong to us.” 1 John 2:19​

“Everyone who has been fathered by God does not practice sin, because God’s seed resides in him, and thus he is not able to sin, because he has been fathered by God.” 1 John 3:9​

Those who commit the sin of unbelief – rejecting Christ – are “born from above”? Nope. That doesn’t make sense to me unless you are a universalist, and I don’t think you are. The type that is being shown through the exodus story is that there were those who rebelled who refused to enter into God’s rest (the promised land where they would be a kingdom of priests ruled by God). The Christian parallel to the promised land is the Kingdom of God, which is the rule of God. How can we can Jesus “Lord” if we don’t do what He says? Simply put, we cannot say it truthfully.

Simply put, a person becomes a Christian by taking up their cross and following Jesus (Matthew 16:24-25 and Luke 14:26-33). Interpreted, that statement means that they considered their old life as something that is as good as dead (the picture is a person walking to their execution), but they are following Jesus into a different kind of life. They are turned over everything they know themselves to be, to all they know Christ to be.

Actually, I stand with the author of Hebrews:

“But in your case, dear friends, even though we speak like this, we are convinced of better things relating to salvation.” Hebrews 6:9​

The author of Hebrews thinks that they will persevere and move out of unbelief into faith, but is warning these persons of Hebrew origins that if they do not, it is evidence that they will not inherit the Kingdom of God, where eternal life is received.

Even if the Bible teaches otherwise? This is a statement of the will, not the statement of a learner who is open to be taught from the scripture.

Not at all. It is an attempt to understand the passage in light of the context.

If you are going to accuse me of trying to deny scripture, at least you could do all of us the courtesy of quoting it accurately. In no place does it say, “The LORD’s people.”

Here is the passage in question:

Hebrews 6:4-8
For it is impossible in the case of those who have once been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, become partakers of the Holy Spirit, tasted the good word of God and the miracles of the coming age, and then have committed apostasy, to renew them again to repentance, since they are crucifying the Son of God for themselves all over again and holding him up to contempt. For the ground that has soaked up the rain that frequently falls on it and yields useful vegetation for those who tend it receives a blessing from God. But if it produces thorns and thistles, it is useless and about to be cursed; its fate is to be burned.​

Notice that the apostasy that they are dangerously close to committing is compared to crucifying the Son of God (complete and vicious rejection) and holding Him up to contempt. Then there is an allusion to the parable of the sower (Matthew 13) where there are four soils that receive the seed, but one is so hard that the seeds do not take root, another soil is shallow and the seed that germinates cannot take firm root, the next soil has the seed choked out by thorns (aka the cares of the world), but the last soil receives the seed and is fruitful. Only the last soil is a picture of the believer.

Also in this same context, Jesus give us the parable of the wheat and the tares (Matthew 13:24-30 and 13:36-43). The tares/weeds look just like wheat for much of their life cycle, but produce no fruit and are destroyed (verses 41-42 and 49-50).

The author of Hebrews is not trying to tell us that these believers are true believers in this passage by pointing out that they have been enlighted, tasted/experienced the “heavenly gift”, and tasted/experienced the “good word of God and miracles.” It is a build-up to demonstrate the magnitude and incomprehensible nature of their hesitation to go all the way into a full commitment to Christ. It is just like their forefathers in the desert who experienced the presence and miracles of God every day, yet would not trust Him. They demonstrated that they were not Abraham’s true spiritual descendants (Romans 9:6-8).

 

BB, I want to apologize to you if I come across as being disrespectful to you. I’ve read enough of your posts in the past to convince me that you are a sincere, devoted Christian and student of His word, and you do indeed have my respect for that.

I doubt we’re going to come to agreement on some of these points. I admit, I’m a ‘hyper’. I’m a ‘hyper-Monergist’ in my soteriology, and a ‘hyper-originalist’ in my initial approach to scripture, i.e., what was the original intent of the writer? As Hodge worded it, “The Scriptures are to be taken in the sense attached to them in the age and by the people to whom they were addressed".

If they’ve ‘made shipwreck of the faith’ they can no longer be considered as ‘true believers’, now can they? But that doesn’t change their eternal status as ‘redeemed’.

I hold to ‘preservation’ of the saints as demonstrated in 1 Cor 5:5.

You’ve just given a description of what we all should aspire to be.

Amen!

Amen!

And this is where we’ll part ways. I assume you consider becoming ‘partners with Christ’ as an absolute necessity in order to go to heaven, whereas I consider it to be the grandest of privileges His children could ever have in this temporal realm. To be ‘partners with Christ’ is to have life and to have it abundantly, here on earth.

14 for we are become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence firm unto the end:
15 while it is said, To-day if ye shall hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16 For who, when they heard, did provoke? nay, did not all they that came out of Egypt by Moses?
17 And with whom was he displeased forty years? was it not with them that sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that were disobedient?
19 And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief. Heb 3

Were not all these that hardened their hearts, provoked Him, displeased Him, disobeyed Him, and believed not Him, also redeemded by Him with a mighty hand from the House of Bondage?

1 For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 and did all eat the same spiritual food;
4 and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of a spiritual rock that followed them: and the rock was Christ.
5 Howbeit with most of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
9 Neither let us make trial of the Lord, as some of them made trial, and perished by the serpents.
10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them murmured, and perished by the destroyer.
11 Now these things happened unto them by way of example; and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.
12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. 1 Cor 10

The exhortation to us here is to NOT do as they did. Is it hard thing for you to accept that God’s redeemed, born from above children are capable of doing everything they’re told not to do in the book?

Here, I’ll go on with the next verse for you :

13 if we are faithless, he abideth faithful; for he cannot deny himself.

What a wonderful, magnificent, faithful God that we have!:

3 For what if some were without faith? shall their want of faith make of none effect the faithfulness of God?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be found true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy words, And mightest prevail when thou comest into judgment. Ro 3

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Ro 8

No doubt Peter, as an apostle to the circumcision, is addressing exactly the ‘falling away’ that was occurring in Hebrews. Do you believe that ‘after they have escaped the filthy things of the world through the rich knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ’ they can become eternally damned? I assume you’re reading eternal consequences for these that have ‘turned back’.

This is often misapplied to any ‘backsliding’ Christian. These are antichrists, false teachers, seeking to lead others astray:

18 Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us. 1 Jn 2

In the same vein as:

28 Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood.
29 I know that after my departing grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock;
30 and from among your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. Acts 20

A distinction needs to be made between those that are leading astray and those that are being led astray.

 

Cont.

Again, who is this in reference to, and what is the sin?:

7 My little children, let no man lead you astray: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous:
8 he that doeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. To this end was the Son of God manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. 1 Jn 3

In the same vein as:

15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep`s clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves.
16 By their fruits ye shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but the corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Therefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Mt 7

These are false teachers, antichrists, wolves in sheep clothing that these passages are in reference to.

The subjects we’re discussing were once enlightened and had tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, and THEN fell away. Initially, there was ‘acceptance’ on their part.

It would if you can grasp the concept that His children are capable of doing everything they’re told NOT to do.

I don’t think I am.

Can you cite that I’ve highlighted?

Amen. Agree totally.

Amen. Agree totally.

Perhaps the writer gives some positive reinforcement here?

The kingdom of God here on earth, joy, peace, and righteousness in the Holy Spirit, to lay hold on eternal life, to have it abundantly. The QUALITY of eternal life. The foretaste of glory divine. His children’s eternal destiny was fixed when their names were written before the foundation of the world.

So you’re able to tell who belongs to God and who doesn’t?

29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. Heb 10

Actually it’s more passages than this. It’s those that describe these as ‘brethren, partakers of the Holy Spirit, tasted the good word of God, received the knowledge of the truth, sanctified by the blood of the covenant, the LORD's people’, chapters 3-10.

By returning to the apostate religion that killed Christ they were in essence taking part in that horrendous crime all over again.

I generally disagree with your scripture comparisons here, but duty is calling me to other things. I think we’ve covered plenty enough already to debate though.