Christian Head Covering

Bro. Jim,
With all due respect and the belief that you didn't mean any offense, I don't think the head coverings are "funny hats" at all.

Some would have thought John the Baptist was funny looking in his wardrobe. These ladies are, unless I'm mistaken, displaying their personal separation and dedication to the Lord, much like the Nazarites of old did.

If they came along and said that we had to conform to this standard to be saved or to be right with God, I would quickly label them as cultish. So far I have not seen this even hinted at. In fact, it has been clearly expressed to the contrary.

I am all for separation standards. If they are higher than mine, praise the Lord for their level of dedication. A simple explanation of a standard is not an implication that all should hold to it.

 

Not to worry, I have stepped down from moderating this forum until the cultists are removed and only Baptists are allowed to post.

Jim

 

Jim, the group of which you speak (NABC) are Baptists of German origin, and are a totally separate group from the German Baptist Brethren mentioned by Miss Maggie & Clint.

 

Clint,
Thank you for that link. I can't look at it now, but I will be in the future. I get on here in blurbs when I can get a second to sit down.

Pastor Bob,
Thank you for your kind words of encouragement and more than that understanding that when I say that this has absolutely not one ioda to do with salvation I mean it. Gosh, when I was saved I was a doing things that I am deeply ashamed of now. But, I know that the blood is enough to wash those away. The perfect blood of Jesus Christ washed a filthy sinner like me clean. And now I desire to live wholeheartedly for Him. I fail miserably most of the time but my heart is set there at pleasing Him.

Ok ladies, now to give the first part of my testimony. I did it kind of backwards sorry.

About seven years ago I began to read the Word and I was going through a trial in my life, one that I caused. And during that time I realized the foolishness of choosing my own way over the Lord's. I caused myself and others heartache mainly for being out of the will of God. So, I began to read the Word and I decided that I would begin trying to follow it as well.

Well, that is where my trouble began. I noticed that when I began to follow one area I was faced with opposition. But, then I learned how to handle the opposition. Then the Lord would show me another area and so on and on.

Then this issue of the veil came up about three years ago. I read it in 1 Corinthians 11 while stydying the Word. This verse kept jumping out at me 1 Corinthians 11:6, "For if a woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered." Then I kept seeing the verse at the bottom that says long hair is given as a covering. I kept trying to reconcile the two verses. Why would verse six clearly say that if she be not covered let her be shorn, (hair cut off,) but then verse 15 says that hair is a covering? Why would the Lord inspire Paul to spend all of this time with this chapter? I had never seen any Baptist woman with a covering on. The only ladies I ever saw with coverings on were nuns, I grew up Catholic and back then they still wore them. BTW, if you ask them why I was told they will answer 1 Corinthians 11.

Anyway, and I knew Amish women wore them too. But, I always thought they wore them because they were stuck in time. I did not know that there were women all over the world who were returning to this practice. Most of whom were alone in their churches as I am to this day.

Headcovering is not a fellowship issue either. I have friends who wear no covering and I have some that do in other churches. I do not see it as a litmus test for one's spirituality either. I would love to see more Christian women covered, yes but that is not the test that proves one more holier or having a better standing with the Lord.

Well, I dismissed the covering as I discussed the verses with a friend. She kept telling me that it was the hair. But, I could not get over verse six. Because if it were only the hair it would be saying, If she has short hair let her have short hair.

Then I began to do searches on the internet about a year after that and found that other women were doing this. They were not all Mennonite either. They were from literally many denominations. And one thing kept coming up over and over as I read more. Submission and God's order of creation.

Well, I ordered a booklet for free from Stephen Hulshizer called, "The Truth of Headship and It's Symbolic Practice." I took my time and read it very slowly. I could not believe what the Lord was showing me. This piece of cloth's meaning is more than submission it is about freedom in Christ.

When Eve sinned she was out of order. She usurped authority from her husband. She chose to get out of order.

But, with Christ we can be in order. We can be the way God intended it to be. God-Christ-Man-Woman. No, that does mean I go to a man for salvation. It means that God is a God of order and not chaos. This world is a chaotic place with women usurping authority left and right and even in the Church. God wants order and the covering stands for that order. It says I have chosen to follow God's order of creation. I have chosen against popular opinion to get under authority. Do I like being there, not always. But, there is peace in making the proclamation that God's ways are best and He is and orderly God.

Also in verse 9 it says that the woman was created for the man. This was a hard one for me to swallow. But, it was written in a different way in Genesis 2. I was ceated for my husband, not the other way around. Not an easy one to take in this culture that teaches women are to have their own identities and such.

I am not saying that the Lord never calls a woman to work outside of the home or remain single what I am saying is that woman was originally made as a helpmeet for man.

As far as wearing the veil all the time, after reading Hulshizer's book I approached my husband. I told him I had been studying this issue at length and felt the Holy Spirit ask me to do this. I asked him if he would not mind if I did this, because I told him that I did not want to cause any embarrassment to him, knowing that no others practiced this. He gave me his permission and later studied more himself.

Then I read some more online and found this site which I think is wonderful. I have met the author and she is a meek and gentle lady.

About protection, the other verse that helped convict me was verse ten. In that the Lord speaking through Paul says, "Because of the angels." now, what in the world does that mean? I still do not know exactly, but I do know that in the Moses was told to put blood on the doorposts as a sign for the angel of death to passover their homes. So, it seems that possibly the angels use this as a sign. Some even call the veiling a sign covering. I believe I have been protected spiritually and physically since wearing the veiling. I probably have no idea what I have been protected from but I do know that the Lord saw fit to include the words, "Because of the angels."

This made me know for sure that there was something very important about this practice. Why were the angels involved in this?

Another thing that helped me understand it was studying Vines Expository Dictionary. I do not know Greek so I must rely on these type of books. It says that the word for covering in verse six is dfferent than in verse fifteen. Also many other commentaries say that a fabric covering is in order, especially the ones from days gone by.

Then I looked at history. I heard about a day when all women wore hats to church. My Pastor told us he remembers those days. I do remember older women when I was a girl wearing scarves when they left the home.

I even have a book about First Ladies from Martha to Barbara Bush. I found it quite interesting that most women until the late 1800's had some type of covering on. Then all of a sudden, no veil and short hair.

Then I put all the pieces together. The removal of the veil is part of something very big: Feminism.

It all made sense now. Out of order, in charge, no veil, short hair, outside of the home, in pants.

I was raised this way, BTW.

 

Oops, I forgot to post this link. It explains it better than I can about why many women choose to wear the headship veiling all the time.
http://www.crossover.ellison.net/HeadcoveringIntro.htm

HCL

 

Headcoveredlady~that was absolutely beautiful! And to PastorBob, what can I say, except may the Lord richly bless you, sir, as you serve Him with a servant's heart.

I can see that if we are to be an example to other believers as well as to the unsaved, the Lord desires us to live holy, blameless lives before the world.

Unlike cults, I do the things I do because that's what I've been led to do by the Holy Spirit, not "in order to get to heaven".

 

HCL:
Then I put all the pieces together. The removal of the veil is part of something very big: Feminism.

It all made sense now. Out of order, in charge, no veil, short hair, outside of the home, in pants.

Gina:
I take it you mean the bad forms of feminism.
Are you trying to say a female working outside the home and/or wearing pants is not biblically submissive? And how short does a persons hair have to be to be considered short? Is a man's hair just covering his ears considered long hair? Is a woman's hair just covering her ears considered short hair?

 

Dear Gina,
I recognize that some women must work outside of the home. I am talking about those who put their God-given responsibilities after their careers.
I prefer not to get into discussions such as if so and so has one inch of hair is long. But, I think most Christians know what long and short hair is, don't you?
God says that long hair is a woman's glory, right?

 

No, we don't know as it's an issue that still gets discussed.
It needs to be settled. What is long and what isn't? Is long different for a girl than a guy? If my daughter decides to get her hair that now reaches past her waist cut to shoulder length, is that wrong? Would my one daughter whose hair just doesn't grow and was just below her ears for the longest time considered to have short hair?

If it's biblical and should be followed, then yes, we need to define what how long long is when it comes to hair.

And btw, thank you for your offer about the hair covering, that is very kind. I think I'll probably end up having one of the Amish sew them for me though, cuz I'm going to be specific about what I want. LOL (I'm picky)

Gina

 

Since I have my own car, and have to go out a lot without my husband(helping mom, and things i have to doa t church), no one has ever mistaken me for not being married, and I also don't wear my wedding ring, I love my ring and my husband, and my marriage, but I have trouble with my fingers swelling easily, and even my husband doesn't like me to wear it. So I'm by myself, and no ring, and still noone has ever thought I was single. Too bad a woman can't go out in public with a man eyeing them as potential.
Ihave no problem with any woman wanting to cover their heads. ANd i am glad you said I don't personally know if every woman is supposed to cover her head or not. I am not skilled enough in religion to know that. I do know I am supposed to. If you are not called to wear one then that is fine, I do not judge you , I haven't yet judged anyone becasue they wanted to cover their heads. I appreciate somoene who does not judgeing either. usually these ladies don't mind judgeing.

I'm with Gina, a head covering should at least be what it's being called, a HEADcovering. To properly cover the head it needs to start above the face, just above the forhead maybe, where the hair starts. Now thats what I'd call a headcovering, not a hair covering.

[ November 30, 2002, 10:42 PM: Message edited by: katie ]

 

Another thing, if God blesses and takes care of people based on what they do, then wheres the grace.

 

Some of the Women I know in the Church of God Seventh Day do practice headcovering, while they are in the church. I do not recall headcovering being used in the public arena.

The interpretation I recieve from this verse (1Cor 11:5)is that a headcovering is suggested whilst praying or prophesying. Not in the public arena.

Women of all shapes and sizes are Gods beautifull creation. No woman should ever feel that she has to cover her head and face in public.

If we look at verse 15 it states that a womans hair is given to her as a covering. Yet verse 6 seems to suggest that hair should be shaved off if no covering is used?

Here is an opinion on what St Paul is driving at. It is a fact that Temple Prostitutes existed in Corinth. In society in general women covered their heads. excepting those of a questionable moral judgement. Some women in the Corinthian church were casting aside their headcoverings to advertise there new found freedom in Jesus Christ. It is likely that St Paul wanted that the church would stay in step with the societys percieved values in order to evangalise the community rather than deliberatley enflaming hostilitiy against the church.

There were obviously people in the culture of the day who had their heads shaved for a religious nature, a Hare Krishna is an example. There is a fable that Jesus spent time in India as a teenager which cannot be proved. However it is likely that interaction between the Indian society occured. Krishna followers and other Pagans would not have been a good example for the church to follow.

Which brings us to the modern church. In Australia a number of preachers preach in shorts up north. On the basis that it is swelteringly hot and Humid 6 months of the year. Wearing of shorts is perfectly acceptable in Australian Society. Take the Crocodile Man Steve Irwin for example. I think there is a case to base descions on dress concerning current social issues. We all know what is a proper and improper manner to dress.

 

In my 49 years in the church... 35 years as a member I've never seen Baptist Women with a headcovering!... Plenty of hats though and the Men too!... They don't wear hats much anymore I guess it just went out of style.

I've been to some of the Black Baptist meetings and the Women still wear hats and the Men still wear hats... The older ones that is!... Then again when it is Sunday go to meeting time they dress to the teeth. Come Easter they really put on the finery and strut there stuff. After all they are in the kings house... Brother Glen

 

I think the idea of headcoverings has been misunderstood from the Greek. I just finished about three hours of study on this with two others. The results are here:
http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=001935

 

Dear HCL,
One of the things I have noticed about your testimony and those on various covering sites is that most of the time conviction starts with the woman, she asks her husband if he would mind if she "covers", and her pastor and church have never even mentioned the subject.

I would have thought, from the other things that you say, that God would have led your husband and pastor more directly.

LOL, Maggie, I guess it helps me that I must be either ugly, naive, or both. I go many places without my husband and NEVER have the problems you described.

Karen

[ December 01, 2002, 03:18 AM: Message edited by: Karen ]

 

Why do so many women misinterpet scripture and say it has to be worn all the time, when that is obviously not what it says when one takes the time to really study it.
Asm I was thining last night about this I have to say that when peopel have asked me about things like what church do I go to without me telling them I do, or ask a bible question, it has never depended on what I was wearing or the look of my hiar, but what was coming from my heart, my attitudes. If a person has to have their hair covered to be asked about God they are having some problem, becasue God is not evident in their lives unless thay make a show of themselves.