Christianity and Paganism - What is the Truth?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Adonia, Apr 23, 2017.

  1. Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The early churech did not do that, but the RCC did later on!
     
  2. Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2010
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    2
    Where are you getting your ideas from? Nowhere does the Catholic Church teach that no one is saved without her consent. What the Catholic Church officially believes is easy to find and you will never find anything like that.
    Mediatrix and Co-Redemptix are not infallible dogmas of the Church. They are theological reflections. Those titles do not mean Mary is a Redeemer or that grace is generated by her. All it means is that she cooperated with God by giving birth to the Redeemer and throughout her life she lived for Christ. Catholic Theology is simply deeper then Protestant. Catholics think and write about the mysteries of God.
     
  3. Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2010
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    2
    Interpreting from Tradition that goes back thousands of years by people who lived in the apostolic age is going to be more reliable than interpreting scripture based on the feelings of someone who lived 15-21 centuries later.
     
  4. Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2010
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    2
    What were the names of the "churches" who copied and kept the writings?
     
  5. MennoSota Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,727
    Likes Received:
    443
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    You can check with textual critics if you want that information.
     
  6. MennoSota Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,727
    Likes Received:
    443
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    The problem, of course, is that the traditions do not always come from scripture. They come from flawed humans. Scripture should always supercede tradition when there is a conflict.
     
  7. Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2010
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    2
    Yes, but when you have agreement on what a passage means from those in the East, West, North, South then it seems to me that is a solid indicator that the interpretation is one that one handed down by the apostles. John 3:5 is a great example. Everyone believed we are born again in water baptism.
     
  8. HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Baloney - I am a former Catholic.

    Christened
    First Holy Communion
    Confirmation
    Trained for Holy Orders by Jesuits.

    The apologetic with which you speak is for the uninformed.

    At least be honest as this long list of popes who believe she is the Mediatrix of all Graces, the coRedemptrix with Christ and the Advocate of Humanity.

    If you are Catholic are you ashamed of her exaltation by the Church of Rome?
    "behold your mother".

    Not confirmed ex cathedra but it is a viable teaching of the Church, accepted dogma and Catholics are encouraged to write to Pope Francis to pronounce and exalt the 5th Marian Dogma as Mary the Mediatrix of All Graces, coRedemptrix of the World and the Advocate of Humanity.

    Lest there be any doubt;
    Mary Mediatrix of All Graces, Part II | Fifth Marian Dogma

    Douay-Rheimes:
    Timothy 2:5 For there is one God: and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus:

    HankD
     
  9. MennoSota Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,727
    Likes Received:
    443
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Correct, which is why I say that not all that the Roman church teaches is false.
    However, when there is conflict between scripture and tradition...scripture takes precedence. The Roman church says that tradition takes precedence over scripture.
     
  10. Adonia Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2016
    Messages:
    5,020
    Likes Received:
    941
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    The problem is, whose interpretation of the Scriptures should be followed when trying to determine the validity of the traditions via the Scriptures?
     
  11. MennoSota Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,727
    Likes Received:
    443
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    The Apostles didn't hand down traditions. They witnessed about Christ crucified and risen.
    They wrote to people to explain this by inspiration of the Spirit of God. (2 Timothy 3:16)
    When God speaks it is true and good. When the church of Rome speaks it is not God speaking. The church of Rome is subservient to God's word and must reform itself to be like Christ. It cannot continue to exalt traditions that have no biblical support as more important than the Bible.
    Sola Scriptura
     
  12. Bro. James Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,130
    Likes Received:
    59
    Faith:
    Baptist
    -
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The holy see has reformed on many occasions. The problem is: apostasy reformed is still reformed apostasy.

    The remnant of God in every generation have not apostasized. Jesus keeps them through the gates of hell--as promised.

    Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

    Bro. James
     
  13. MennoSota Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,727
    Likes Received:
    443
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    The leaders of the Roman church are apostate. They do not follow God's word simply because they honor their traditions over God's word. This is the same issue that Yeshua, Jesus, dealt with when addressing the leaders of the temple and the priests. Their concern was the external shell rather than the heart. Like Caiaphas in Jesus day, so is the Pope and his council. They lead the church of Rome toward hell.

    There is a remnant in the Roman church whom God has redeemed despite the heresy of the leaders. Indeed, God's chosen will never be lost by God.
     
  14. Adonia Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2016
    Messages:
    5,020
    Likes Received:
    941
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    It's not that Christianity is just warmed up paganism, it is that Christianity supplanted paganism in one of the most thorough ways possible - by taking over all their festivals, holidays, stories etc. Jesus is the true God come to earth and it was all according to plan.
     
  15. Adonia Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2016
    Messages:
    5,020
    Likes Received:
    941
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    A belief in the Trinitarian Godhead is the most basic belief of Christianity. If you do not believe that teaching then you are not a Christian - it is that simple.
     
  16. Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    To deny that Jesus is God is spirit of antichrist!
     
  17. Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2010
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    2
    You need to be honest and explain what those titles actually mean and not what you want them to mean. You said that the Catholic church teaches that no one is saved without Mary's consent. Please provide a quote from the Catholic Catechism that says that.
     
  18. Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2010
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    2
    Can you provide a quote from the Catechism that says tradition take precedence over scripture? I can't find it.
    # 82 says..............."Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence."
     
  19. Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2010
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    2
    What is your evidence that the apostles did not hand down traditions?
     
  20. MennoSota Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,727
    Likes Received:
    443
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    You are asking us to argue from silence.
    What we know is that there are writings in the canon of the New Testament that are ascribed to the Apostles or their compatriots. There is no evidence of traditions beyond praying together, baptism and remembering the Lord's Supper. The church at Rome has added layer upon layer upon layer that has no biblical source.
    Example: Nowhere in the Bible can you find baptism of infants for the purpose of salvation. Yet, the church at Rome practices this tradition and teaches that infants are saved by the ceremony.