So you completely dismiss Origen's statement from the 200's " "For this reason, moreover, the Church received from the apostles the tradition of baptizing infants too." Homily on Romans, V:9
Hippolytus from the same time period.
“Baptize first the children and if they can speak for themselves let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them”. Apostolic Tradition
Christianity and Paganism - What is the Truth?
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Adonia, Apr 23, 2017.
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HankD -
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Amen. Paul was an administrator of God's grace. That is what Scripture says.
It then says, "
How Mary is Mediatrix of all graces is a simple expansion of this idea; the Grace of salvation for all is, Jesus Christ, and He was entrusted to Mary by God for the world. All Grace, Jesus, was given to the world by and through Mary........Jesus did not just come physically through Mary but by means of the consent of her will and her faith as noted above. In other words because of Mary’s consent and her faith the person who is All Grace is given to the world. For these two reasons, her faith and consent and her bringing Jesus to the world Mary is the mediatrix or channel of All Grace as embodied in the Person of her Son, Jesus. Without her consent and faith we would not have our Saviour come into the world. Also since Mary received Jesus from the Father, carried Him in her womb and finally at Cana gave Him to the world, she is the dispenser of All Grace, Jesus Christ and therefore she is also the dispenser of every individual grace."
Amen. That's not saying what you are saying. Mary isn't in heaven with a check list deciding who gets grace and who doesn't. All grace comes from God. She is a dispenser of grace by analogy. Because she gave birth to the "channel of All Grace" Jesus Christ she is called the mediatrix of grace.
That's all it means, nothing else. -
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Jesus knew we are saved by grace yet He said, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved." Jesus made no distinction between belief and grace and baptism and grace. -
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Bro. James Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Sounds like this co-redemptrix analogy comes from the same analogy class as transubstantiation.
This is mostly religious double speak. The same words have different definitions. John 14:6 is not an analogy.
Basic paradigm: a child can understand the things of God. Now what?
God does not author confusion. Pagan idolatry is alive and well on planet earth. Many do worship in vain teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. This seems to be a part of our fallen nature.
Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Bro. James -
Yes. There is zero evidence in the Bible for infant baptism. What we know is that the scriptures supercede Origen and Hippolytus. One thing that is obvious in studying history is that pagan cultures added their own practices on top of the Bible. These traditions are always subservient when they conflict with the Bible. Infant baptism is a clear example of a practice added by others outside of Scripture. The teaching is anathema to God's word in regards to redemption and adoption by God. -
Grace is not like a cosmic dishwashing soap. It's not found in water. God displays grace when he makes us alive, when we deserved to remain dead in our trespasses and sins. -
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Over the years since my youth the RCC has used orwellian doublethink apologetics to soften the offensive blows to biblical Christianity.
However several hundred years of older papal encyclicals have taught differently - Marian personal mediation.
Plus many many more...
True, Jesus Christ is almost always at the very head of the list of mediation of the salvific graces yet the very titles given to Mary are offensive to the "separated Brethren".
As well as a violation of scripture.
Douay-Rheims
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God: and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus:
HankD -
Is water without the words given to us by Christ valid? No. The power comes from God in the water and the words. -
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