This is the most common response by the natural man when they hear that God the Son raised Christ from the dead. I briefly explained to you what happens at death earlier, but you denied it. Others have explained the same thing in different threads, and yet you denied it there as well. Here is a larger explanation of this for you.
God is a Spirit. Jesus Christ is the merging of God who is Spirit with man who is flesh. Upon death of a man, the spirit and soul depart from the flesh, yet they do not cease to exist, they are merely separated, some are in hell at the moment others are in heaven (so-called for simplicity sake). Death refers to separation; the body of Jesus on the cross was separated from the spirit and soul of the man Christ Jesus. Also, on the Cross, God the Son experienced separation from God the Father, and yet remained fully one God. Christ’s body having been separated from His spirit and soul, along with the divinity of Christ being separated from God the Father, yet He remained fully one with the one indivisible God. With resurrection power, God the Son along with God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit, all partook in the resurrection of Christ. This is known as the mystery of the cross, and is also known as the foolishness of the cross which human reasoning fails to fully comprehend.
That is the most concise way I can explain it.
I am a pushover compared to the one in whom you deny resurrection power. Will you stand before the One who has firmly stated, “I will raise it up”, and call Him a liar to His face?
Those are fine words, and I have heard them often, but the fruit you display is very much opposite to your proclamation. That is what happens when one believes in a different Jesus than the one revealed in scripture; their profession comes without resurrection power.
Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
BGTF
Christology
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by ByGracethroughFaith, Sep 18, 2007.
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BGTF -
2. I believe Owen's use of 1 Peter 3:18 is incorrect, pneuma is not speaking of the Holy Spirit, but of the spirit. Consult several versions and commentaries on this.
3. I believe the Holy was involved in the resurrection of Jesus. If I didn't, Rom 1:4 and 8:11 would make no sense to me. But I don't believe we have to prove that from a problematic verse as 1 Peter 3:18.
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http://www.bible-topics.com/Resurrection-of-Christ-The.html
BGTF -
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The most important aspect of the Cross is the Absolute Obedience to God the Father by His Son. Jesus obeyed His Father unto death, even the death at the Cross. He could come down from the Cross any time. But He didn't. Even at the time of Resurrection, He could have raised Himself. However, He committed Himself to His Father. I am sure that Jesus waited for the Raise by His Father in His absolute obedience, because such absolute obedience is the part of the divine nature as well. Therefore God the Father justly raised His Son, which is the common statement in ac 3:13-26 and many other verses of Bible, which you are eager to deny now, to insist that the raise by the Trinity is the only answer.
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If one denies the Trinity in word or practice, they are going to hell. Now you are free to go where you want, but I won’t stand idly by while you publicly trample the work of the second person of the Trinity, when you deny operation of God the Son in the resurrection of Christ.
The only acceptable answer with regards to the resurrection of Christ that does not deny the divinity of Christ and the person of the Holy Spirit is this:
God the Father raised Christ, God the Son raised Christ, and God the Holy Spirit raised Christ. It is the operation all three persons of the one indivisible God. Likewise the three persons of the one indivisible God work in harmony in the salvation of men.
BGTF -
Galatians 1:1
Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
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Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
John 2:19-21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
It is Eliyahu who is holding to heresy.
Since it has been determined that you can't see the above doctrine, can you see this one?
In Gen 17:1 Abraham saw God the Son.
BGTF -
Constantly slinging pejorative terms "proves nothing" except that it reminds the reader to check and see if your argument is going weak.
I for one fully agree with the Trinitrian view and I also agree that all three members of the Godhead were involved in the work, ministry and even resurrection of Christ.
But you are going to some pretty wild extremes.
In John 16 Christ said to His OWN "I have many MORE things to tell you but you can not bear them" and then predicted the work of the Holy Spirit as He continued to reveal more truth to them. But wait a minute!! you say the Holy Spirit must do a full and complete core-dump of all data on the infinite truths regarding the Trinity at the moment of salvation OR the person can not be saved at all. That is extreme.
in Christ,
Bob -
When someone doesn't know some truth about Christ but wants to learn it, they are treated differently than someone who rejects a truth about Christ and openly teaches to deny it.
John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me :
BGTF -
Let me re-translate for you
But if the Spirit of the Raiser ( God the Father) who raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He ( God the Father) who raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwells in you.
John 2:19 is the only resort for you, as you don't understand this truth:
Phil 2
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name
In your theology, God the Father Himself also took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men, and God the Father was crucified at the Cross.
If you don't believe that, you are denying the Trinity, and you are heretic according to your own theology, right?
God sent His Son Jesus to this world to save you.
In your theology, it is a heresy because it should be this:
God the Son sent Jesus to this world to save you. If you deny it, you are denying Trinity, and therefore you become a Heretic, right? -
god the father sent jesus to earth to redeem us by his blood and the works of the cross , jesus did the will of his father when he was here , read thebook of john anf you will see this :jesus:
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He asked me " who raised Jesus from the dead?" I answered "God raised Jesus from the dead." Then he said I am wrong and should go to the Hell because I don't have the right spirit, saying that Romans 8:11 tells us that the Spirit raised Him from the dead, and Trinity worked there.
Then I said, Both can be right, God raised Jesus from the dead, and God in Trinity may have worked together.
He condemns anyone who confess that God raised His Son from the dead, claiming that one should have the notion that God in Trinity has raised Jesus.
Trinity raised Jesus, this is the only legitimate answer according to his theology. Because Jesus said, he would raise the temple in three days ( Jn 2:19) If anyone doesn't know this crucial truth, he or she is condemned to go to the Hell and they are Heretic. That's his Litmus Paper for the discernment of Salvation.
That is his theology.
Read thru all the arguments above, they are very much interesting. -
BGTF,
Did Jesus say that He would raise the temple in three days while He was alive or did He say that while He was dead?
I ask this question because your stronghold to claiming that God the Son raised Jesus from the dead is John 2:19, and I already told you that if anyone could raise the dead, then that person was no longer dead but was already alive.
Do you claim that Jesus died only a half death, only the humanity died and the divinity was still alive? -
2. In fact, outside of John's narrative, every reference to the resurrection of Christ points to the Father doing the raising, with the instrumentality of the Spirit in one instance (Rom 1:4).
3. Earlier I used Romans 8:11 to show that the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead, but my use was incorrect, after looking at it again. It is the Father who does the raising in this verse.
4. The Greek on Romans 1:4 is not too clear either, but the versions seem to involve the Spirit in Christ's resurrection. -
So while I happen to agree that all three were involved with this event just as all three were invovled in the Gen 1-2:3 creation event "Let US make man in OUR own imagine" and yet John 1 points to Christ as the Creator of all on this earth -- still I have a hard to seeing this as a formula for dooming other Christians.
in Christ,
Bob -
This is the company of others who denied Christ's power over His own resurrection.
Matt 26:60-62 But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses, 61 And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.
KJV
They couldn't believe he would partake in it either.
Here is what Matthew Henry has to say on John 2:19
BGTF -
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