Of course you can be discipled outside the church
but if we are going to follow the New testament church example we should be discipled in church also.
church attendance
Discussion in 'Pastoral Ministries' started by steveo, Jun 5, 2004.
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The Bible commands faithful participation and ministry in the body of Christ. A believer who does not do that is at best disobedient ... they may not be a true believer.
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Faithful membership and attendance in a local church is biblical. But nobody should have to answer to a pastor as to attendance record. We have no "priests" in our Baptist churches, although I've met a few pastor/dictators who fit the bill as "pope"! :eek:
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Bob,
That is the reason I said that the pastor doesn't discipline anyone. Unfortunately, too many people think "it's the pastor's job." It's everybody's job. When someone is missing and not fulfillign their God-given role, it is not my job as the pastor to go after them. It is the job of the body to go and bring them back. -
steveo,
considering some of the things i've heard about some churches i would gladly attend a liberal church anyday, perhaps they would be willing to stand up to the responsibilities and stick to the commission of lost and hurting people.
I am not saying the regular attendance of services isn't important, it is. HOWEVER it is not in the pastor's or anyone else's place to "discipline" ANYONE for missing one week or a year. If they are memebers they would automatically not be able to have say in anything for obvious reasons, but never disciplined.
Btw Steveo, just because one might not attend church does not mean their commitment to Christ is no longer there. -
Do you have any NT teachings that back up your assertions? -
The majority of churches need to discipline themselves first by making disciples of Jesus not just students of Him. Ministry is not at a Bible study. It is done in the world where we live and work. If churches began discipling people a number would leave and others would come. People go where they feel comfortable.
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gb...very very correct.
PastorLarry,
Obedience to Christ is many many other things than church attendence alone. There are many reasons why people just stop attending, many have deep pain issues they don't know how to cope with induced by the church or pastor. Does this exempt them from obedience to Jesus? Of course not, however the bible says do not forsake the assembling of thyselves together, and what actually constitutes an assembling?
Someone could easily be commited to Christ but not attend church, you just don't know the purposes behind the absentness. -
There is also a responsibility in the great commision for discipleship(teaching) and this is why attendance is important. -
For the two of you slamming SBC churches, our SBC church has taught this actively for years, and I am the product of that discipleship, and I am used by God to actively provide it for others. God is doing incredible things in our SBC church, which is one of the largest anywhere, and in which over two-thirds on our role are active members. I'm thinking that the body at large would function better, and maybe even become irresistable to the lost, if we could knock those giant chips off our shoulders!
David -
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If only my attendance counts for what I do for the church then I guess they better throw me out! Because of my son illness and my husbands attitude toward 'organized religion', I haven't been able to attend Sunday Morning church but twice since December. I've done better on Wednesday nights, but not by much.
On the other hand, I'm teaching in VBS. I keep in contact with the members of my Sunday School class(who thankfully understand my situation). If special projects come up during the week(it is only weekend things that T objects to) I'm available to help and do.
According to some of you that is not good enough. I must be in disobediance or maybe not really saved because I don't go to church every time the doors are open. Huh, my best is not good enough. Who are you to tell me that? And since when is my salvation contingent upon how often I attend services? I don't think so, and I really don't think you do either, but that is how some of you are coming across.
I think we better be careful in how we approach people about their church attendence. You might just get an earful that you didn't want to hear by telling someone that their membership is contigent upon how often they attend services.
It is a good idea to ask in a loving way if there is an obstacle to church attendence that the other church member can help to remove. It is NOT a good idea to approach it from the notion that people are either in disobedience to God or are not really saved if they don't appear regularly in church.
Lack of CHURCH attendence does not mean that people aren't fellowshiping with others who love the Lord. They may simply be fellowshiping in different way than attending preaching. I agree that Christians NEED the company of one another in order to grow. I don't agree that is HAS to be in a traditional church service. -
AF Guy N Paradise Active MemberSite Supporter
John -
This is a whole lot more simple than most of you seem to be making it. Christ commands participation in the body. That is what he gifted you for. You should be using it. If someone is wilfully absenting themselves from church there is something wrong.
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Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
"Normal" means people doing what Christ commands... And people in teh church should be reaching out to them. It shouldn't be my job as a pastor.Click to expand...
To answer your next post directed to me, I use the entire book of Acts as the defense of my view of discipleship. First century believers were not bound by the walls of FBC Ephesus. They met constantly and lived out the Great Commission as a way of life. I agree with you, it is a lifestyle, but I don't live at church (although it feels that way sometimes!). I evangelize as a way of life through normal life situations, and I disciple other believers in the same way.
I think you and I actually agree across the board, but we are arguing semantics. I am not a pastor, but a lay person who has built my life around ministry, and it is my job to intentionally build up and equip other believers in my realm of influence as a way of life. -
Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
It is simply amazing to me how little value we place on the church.Click to expand... -
quote: The Bible commands faithful participation and ministry in the body of Christ. A believer who does not do that is at best disobedient ... they may not be a true believer.
Did I misunderstand this? Because this is what says to me that my efforts aren't good enough. It questions my obidience to Christ and even my salvation.
You and I also disagree about what 'continuing in the doctrine of the apostles' means. To me it means they held to the beliefs they were taught by the apostles and not that they went to church on Sunday morning and night and Wednesday night. There were those who lived together in sort of a commune, but I doubt that would work today(we Baptist like to argue to much).
I want a direct quote that says I have to attend church on someone elses schedule to be a Christian.
Now about that earful. Do you really want to hear about the hippocritical attitudes of your fellow pastors? Do you really want to deal with the attitude of your best giving(I'm talking about money here) church members who think that because they come to every service and tithe their ten percent that they can go out and deal decietfully with other in their business dealings? Do you want to deal with the little old lady that sits on the fourth pew from the back and tells visitors that they can't sit there because ________? Or tells them that they are disturbing the service because they open a peppermint? Or how 'bout asking the ladies(and men) to refrain from wearing strong perfumes because there are other members who get such bad allergy attacks or migraines when they are exposed to them that they are sick for days?
Don't start disiplining people for not coming till you have fixed the problems they are not coming about. The above are just a few example of things that have happened in my own church. I can give you more if you want.
As far as simply purging membership rolls, I don't have a problem with it. But every effort should be made to contact those involved to make sure that it is not a lengthy but temporary absense. There are those who may have a two year contract to work somewhere else and then they are coming back. Or a college student who is seeking education in another place for a year or two.
The thing is, you can't lump everyone who doesn't come to church into the same ball. You have to allow for circumstances.
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