Church Rejects Donation from Lottery Winner

[Jim1999]

When the founder of the Salvation Army was criticized for receiving monies from the patrons of pubs, he responded, The church can use the monies; the devil has had it long enough.

Not every sin is labelled in the Bible. I don't gamble for the simple reason I don't believe in chance. Should someone else gamble? That is up to them. I only answer to God for my behavior.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[webdog]

It draws crime

So do nice cars. Are nice cars sin?

It gets people into debt

So do mortgages. Are mortgages sin?

It causes some people to get addicted to gambling

Some people become addicted to food and sex. Are these sin? It is not the "cause", the heart of the person is the cause.

It continues the belief in 'chance' or 'luck'

I would have used "odds", which is factual. Gambling is playing the odds.

It takes away from the poorest people more than any other segment

This could be said of many things.

Putting aside the fact that people are responsible for their own actions (I know they are - please don't tell me people choose to do this), can't we as believers see this is not a good thing to promote, endorse, or engage in?

It would depend. Not for the reasons you have given, though.

The idea that people choose to do this is rather cavalier - it's like saying, "live and let live" which does not sound like a biblical principle to me. This is an attitude of the world.

We allow people every day to make their own decisions. People are allowed to eat and have sex. These are not sin, though.

 

[Aaron]

All of this cracks me up. NNE really gave Biblical backing to where the lottery is sin.

I dont play, and for a lot of the reasons mentioned here. But I can not find any backing from the Bible that says it is SIN. Is it a bad decision? Sure. Is it a wast? Sure again.

But is it a SIN?

I just dont see it.

:laugh: I love it! It is now a virtue to make wasteful, bad decisions! :thumbs:

 

[dragonfly]

:laugh: I love it! It is now a virtue to make wasteful, bad decisions! :thumbs:

When you get through laughing why don't you post Scripture that forbids gambling? If you can't, admit you are wrong and leave the thread.

 

[Marcia]

So do nice cars. Are nice cars sin?
So do mortgages. Are mortgages sin?
Some people become addicted to food and sex. Are these sin? It is not the "cause", the heart of the person is the cause.
I would have used "odds", which is factual. Gambling is playing the odds.
This could be said of many things.
It would depend. Not for the reasons you have given, though.
We allow people every day to make their own decisions. People are allowed to eat and have sex. These are not sin, though.

I think this is really missing the whole point. People have to eat - people do not have to gamble and states do not have to have lotteries. That was one of my points.

Another point is: yes, we allow people to make decisions, but is "live and let live" a Christian attitude? Should believers endorse or pepetuate a system like state lotteries that draw crime, make addicts, causes more poverty, etc. Where is our supposed compassion and concern?

I guess we should just say, "Who cares? Let everyone choose their own fate and I don't give a rip." I mean, why not, it seems a lot of Christians here feel this way. I guess this is supposed to be a good Christian model of how to care.

 

[donnA]

Yes, but with all due respect, DonnA (because I really do like you and usually am with you on most threads!), this is not the point.

As I see it, the thread discussion is not about whether people choose to gamble or not, but whether Christians should endorse the lottery through various actions.

No if I recall the thread is about this one particular church and this one particular man. There was nothing about christians in general.

 

[Marcia]

No if I recall the thread is about this one particular church and this one particular man. There was nothing about christians in general.

Yes, that's true, donnA, but the discussion on state lotteries as gambling does somewhat play into one's view of the pastor's decision at this church. So many posted that who knows where all the donations to churches come from, but that's irrelevant, because in this case, the pastor knew.

Still, I was disappointed in many of the comments.

 

[webdog]

I think this is really missing the whole point. People have to eat - people do not have to gamble and states do not have to have lotteries. That was one of my points.

Another point is: yes, we allow people to make decisions, but is "live and let live" a Christian attitude? Should believers endorse or pepetuate a system like state lotteries that draw crime, make addicts, causes more poverty, etc. Where is our supposed compassion and concern?

I guess we should just say, "Who cares? Let everyone choose their own fate and I don't give a rip." I mean, why not, it seems a lot of Christians here feel this way. I guess this is supposed to be a good Christian model of how to care.

With all due respect, I think you have missed the point...God states what sin is, not man. I only gave you the answes I did to show you that using man's system of grading what sin is, we fall short every time. Let God state what sin is.

 

[Marcia]

With all due respect, I think you have missed the point...God states what sin is, not man. I only gave you the answes I did to show you that using man's system of grading what sin is, we fall short every time. Let God state what sin is.

I think state lotteries can be shown to perpetuate sin as well as cultivate false beliefs (in luck).

Believers are supposed to have compassion and not advocate things which promote damage in people, or at least not be unfeeling toward the effect of such things. Especially in this case, since a state lottery is not a necessity, as I keep saying over and over.

 

[webdog]

I think state lotteries can be shown to perpetuate sin as well as cultivate false beliefs (in luck).

Believers are supposed to have compassion and not advocate things which promote damage in people, or at least not be unfeeling toward the effect of such things. Especially in this case, since a state lottery is not a necessity, as I keep saying over and over.

Trans fats promote damage in people...should a Christian stay away from this? Are potato chips sinful?
Not exercising would also be considerd sin using this standard. That is why I stated using man's standards we fall short of defining sin, and sit on the ledge of legalism.

 

[donnA]

Yes, that's true, donnA, but the discussion on state lotteries as gambling does somewhat play into one's view of the pastor's decision at this church. So many posted that who knows where all the donations to churches come from, but that's irrelevant, because in this case, the pastor knew.

Still, I was disappointed in many of the comments.

Where the tithe money comes from is not irrelevant.
And you seem to have the wrong topic of this thread. Maybe reread the op and see it isn't about christians and state lettery, but about one church and one man.

 

[donnA]

I think state lotteries can be shown to perpetuate sin as well as cultivate false beliefs (in luck).

Believers are supposed to have compassion and not advocate things which promote damage in people, or at least not be unfeeling toward the effect of such things. Especially in this case, since a state lottery is not a necessity, as I keep saying over and over.

Food damages people , are we not advocate that?

 

[Marcia]

Food damages people , are we not advocate that?

But we have to eat, DonnA!

We do not have to have state lotteries. That is why I kept saying it is not a necessary thing.

If I'm off topic, then don't keep debating me. As long as you do, I'll respond.

 

[Marcia]

Trans fats promote damage in people...should a Christian stay away from this? Are potato chips sinful?
Not exercising would also be considerd sin using this standard. That is why I stated using man's standards we fall short of defining sin, and sit on the ledge of legalism.

You missed my point and are making a fallacious argument. Trans fat is beside the point.

I am using biblical principles, not man's standards, to show gambling is wrong. That has been done before - it's not unusuall to see gambling as wrong. My main problem is that a state lottery is state sponsored gambling.

I find it unbelievable that Christians are jumping on me because I think state sponsored gambling is wrong. It used to be that Christians were against this.

 

[webdog]

You missed my point and are making a fallacious argument. Trans fat is beside the point.

I am using biblical principles, not man's standards, to show gambling is wrong. That has been done before - it's not unusuall to see gambling as wrong. My main problem is that a state lottery is state sponsored gambling.

Well, biblical principles state bad stewarship is sin, and over indulgance is sin. While this COULD include gambling, and most certainly does to some people and in certain instances, gambling in itself is not a sin, in the same way alcohol is not a sin, food is not a sin, etc. It is what one does with these things that makes something a sin or not.

 

[Marcia]

Well, biblical principles state bad stewarship is sin, and over indulgance is sin. While this COULD include gambling, and most certainly does to some people and in certain instances, gambling in itself is not a sin, in the same way alcohol is not a sin, food is not a sin, etc. It is what one does with these things that makes something a sin or not.

So gambling is not a sin, it's what one does with it? That doesn't make sense, webdog.

Also, I discussed how gambling does hurt poor people more; there are stats on that. But apparently, that is not an argument to use with Chirsitans here because on the BB, it's every man for himself and why should we care since people choose their own fate. So let's not bother; I have my own life.

 

[webdog]

So gambling is not a sin, it's what one does with it? That doesn't make sense, webdog.

It makes perfect sense. Murder is wrong, but killing in self defense is not. Drunkeness is wrong, but drinking alcohol is not. Sex with someone not your spouse is wrong, but sex with your spouse is not. Same principle applies.

Also, I discussed how gambling does hurt poor people more; there are stats on that. But apparently, that is not an argument to use with Chirsitans here because on the BB, it's every man for himself and why should we care since people choose their own fate. So let's not bother; I have my own life.

Non sequitur. If sin is based on "hurting people more", that is an extra biblical definition for what sin is, and those things I mentioned earlier would be "bigger" sins. Your second sentence is quite condescending, so I will not reply to that.

 

[Marcia]

It makes perfect sense. Murder is wrong, but killing in self defense is not. Drunkeness is wrong, but drinking alcohol is not. Sex with someone not your spouse is wrong, but sex with your spouse is not. Same principle applies.
Non sequitur. If sin is based on "hurting people more", that is an extra biblical definition for what sin is, and those things I mentioned earlier would be "bigger" sins. Your second sentence is quite condescending, so I will not reply to that.

I don't see the analogy between murder and self-defense, which is not murder.

Gambling is gambling; paying money to win on chance is gambling; state lotteries are gambling. There is no difference like what you point out above.

I am not trying to categorize sin; but the bible does give principles to care about what happens to people. It's called compassion. Jesus had it. It's not unbiblical to call compassion and care a biblical virtue. Do you think that not caring is biblical? It's not like there is a checklist of sins and as long as we're clear of them all is well. Isn't being a Christian more than just avoiding a list of sins??

Sorry for the sarcasm - I'm just astounded at the answers here, I really am.

 

[webdog]

I don't see the analogy between murder and self-defense, which is not murder.

I was referring to the act of killing.

Gambling is gambling; paying money to win on chance is gambling; state lotteries are gambling. There is no difference like what you point out above.

Since gambling is basically a risk at the expense of gaining a benefit, buying a home, 401K, stock market, starting or buying a business would all have to be classified as sin, too. Games of chance (odds is a better word) are only one avenue of gambling.

 

[donnA]

But we have to eat, DonnA!

We do not have to have state lotteries. That is why I kept saying it is not a necessary thing.

If I'm off topic, then don't keep debating me. As long as you do, I'll respond.

We have to eat damaging food?
Thats a new one on me.