Until you recognize you're being played, there is nothing to refute.
Wanna talk about the lies that were told to pass Obamacare? that's one that affects almost everyone. Wanna fix the VA? How about immigration? How about illegal EOs. Or the daily trouncing of the constitution by this most criminal of administrations. Or race relations and why blacks commit so much crime and how to fix it.
You know. Something important.
CIA torture report to be published on Monday without the word 'torture'
Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by poncho, Dec 5, 2014.
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Use of Time Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I suppose this conversation is over then. Not like you can hear me with your head in the sand anyway. -
I'm Not listening at all to this stuff that was played out years ago. It's only a distraction and that's all it's meant to be. -
Use of Time Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Use of Time Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Neither side will admit their guys have done anything wrong but here we are, economy has been hollowed out, the NSA tracks and traces our every move, the POTUS and congress claim the authority to arrest us without charges and keep us locked up with no trial forever, execute American citizens without charges or a trial all based on "secret" evidence.
The thing the people who use the term "known terrorist" don't understand is that for this government (and media) all it takes to become a "known terrorist" is for one man to give another that label without even having to show proof! If you read the government reports on terrorism we're the "terrorist threat" it fears most. -
Also even Reagan who let Ollie North take the fall for the Contra affair.
HankD -
I repeat ONCE. I didn't support G.W. after he went all neocon on us and doubled the size and scope of government and went on his nation building spree.
Then along comes Obama and what did he do? He neconned the lefties!
I tend to agree with Jonathan Gruber on one point. American voters are stupid. We have to be the most deceived and gullible people on this planet.
After all the warnings, after all the history of government's going bad we're still "sleep walking" our way to destruction.
No doubt we'll be blaming the other side for what we've all done to this country by allowing our petty differences to distract us from seeing what kind of people have captured our government.
Greedy, selfish, sociopaths and psychopaths who feel they are above the law.
But hey this greedy, selfish, sociopath is on my team that makes him a good egg so leave him alone! -
The Nazis Used the Same “Enchanced Interrogation” Techniques the U.S. Did .. and Even CALLED IT the Same Thing
Nazis Called Their Torture “Enhanced Interrogation” Too
Just ran across an older piece documenting that the CIA and crew did the exact same things the Nazis did to torture people … and even called it the exact same thing.
The Nazis’ “enhanced interrogation” – just like America’s – included:
Sleep deprivation
Cold
Blows
Hard surfaces
Sadly, American officials apparently took a page from the Nazis … and the Communists.
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/12/nazis-used-enchanced-interrogation-techniques-u-s-even-called-thing.html
The phrase "Verschärfte Vernehmung" is German for "enhanced interrogation". Other translations include "intensified interrogation" or "sharpened interrogation". It's a phrase that appears to have been concocted in 1937, to describe a form of torture that would leave no marks, and hence save the embarrassment pre-war Nazi officials were experiencing as their wounded torture victims ended up in court. The methods, as you can see above, are indistinguishable from those described as "enhanced interrogation techniques" by the president. As you can see from the Gestapo memo, moreover, the Nazis were adamant that their "enhanced interrogation techniques" would be carefully restricted and controlled, monitored by an elite professional staff, of the kind recommended by Charles Krauthammer, and strictly reserved for certain categories of prisoner. At least, that was the original plan.
http://www.theatlantic.com/daily-dish/archive/2007/05/-versch-auml-rfte-vernehmung/228158/#more -
Don't forget the popular non-torture methods using Sodium Pentothal, etc.
Confessions and information secured by this, hypnotics and Benzo-diazapenes were labeled as "unconstitutionally coerced" and had limited use.
HankD -
The hands were tied together closely with a cord on the back of the prisoner, raised then the body and hung the cord to a hook, which was attached into two meters height in a tree, so that the feet in air hung. The whole body weight rested thus at the joints bent to the rear. The minimum period of hanging up was a half hour. To remain there three hours hung up, was pretty often. This punishment was carried out at least twice weekly. (Roman crucifixion?)
This is how one detainee at Abu Ghraib died (combined with beating) as in the photograph above. The experience of enduring these stress positions has been described by Rush Limbaugh as no worse than frat-house hazings. Those who have gone through them disagree. They describe:
Dreadful pain in the shoulders and wrists were the results of this treatment. Only laboriously the lung could be supplied with the necessary oxygen. The heart worked in a racing speed. From all pores the sweat penetrated.
Yes, this is an account of someone who went through the "enhanced interrogation techniques" at Dachau.
Critics will no doubt say I am accusing the Bush administration of being Hitler. I'm not. There is no comparison between the political system in Germany in 1937 and the U.S. in 2007. What I am reporting is a simple empirical fact: the interrogation methods approved and defended by this president are not new. Many have been used in the past. The very phrase used by the president to describe torture-that-isn't-somehow-torture - "enhanced interrogation techniques" - is a term originally coined by the Nazis. The techniques are indistinguishable. The methods were clearly understood in 1948 as war-crimes. The punishment for them was death.
http://www.theatlantic.com/daily-dish/archive/2007/05/-versch-auml-rfte-vernehmung/228158/#more
One common form of crucifixion didn't involve a cross. A person was crucified with their hands over their head. This made it so difficult to breathe (once their strength had given out) that they were dead within an hour. Being crucified with arms outstretched was comparatively much worse.
< snip >
If you strenuously stretch out your arms, even while seated, you'll recognize the difficulty. It's easy to inhale with arms fully outstretched, but difficult to exhale again. The body needs to work its muscles to breathe in and out, and it is used to doing so with little resistance. Once the chest is fully expanded, it's impossible to breathe in anything more than sips of air.
http://io9.com/this-is-the-horrible-way-that-crucifixion-actually-kill-1477804826
Remember if anyone asks . . . it's not torture it's . . . "Verschärfte Vernehmung"
Torture: An Executive Summary
There’s a media storm regarding the Senate torture report … appropriately.
But much of the report was redacted by the CIA and White House.
Here’s what you need to know … http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2014/12/torture-an-executive-summary/ -
I'll have to look it up later, but I believe you're actually wrong here. The Geneva convention treatment of prisoners applies to only uniformed "regulars". The terrorists do not fall under this category. -
The victims, by the way, were not in uniform. And the Nazis tried to argue, just as John Yoo did, that this made torturing them legit. The victims were paramilitary Norwegians, operating as an insurgency, against an occupying force. (AKA terrorists by today's standard) And the torturers had also interrogated some prisoners humanely. But the argument, deployed by Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and the Nazis before them, didn't wash with the court. Money quote:
As extenuating circumstances, Bruns had pleaded various incidents in which he had helped Norwegians, Schubert had pleaded difficulties at home, and Clemens had pointed to several hundred interrogations during which he had treated prisoners humanely.
The Court did not regard any of the above-mentioned circumstances as a sufficient reason for mitigating the punishment and found it necessary to act with the utmost severity. Each of the defendants was responsible for a series of incidents of torture, every one of which could, according to Art. 3 (a), (c) and (d) of the Provisional Decree of 4th May, 1945, be punished by the death sentence.
http://www.theatlantic.com/daily-dish/archive/2007/05/-versch-auml-rfte-vernehmung/228158/#more -
I believe I, along with a few others on this board (yourself included) hold that distinction. Conservative, white, veterans who aren't happy with the government. -
Thought you guys were over there protecting us from this kind of tyranny? -
Torture
From! http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/torture?s=t
noun
1.the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty.
2.a method of inflicting such pain.
3.Often, tortures. the pain or suffering caused or undergone.
4.extreme anguish of body or mind; agony.
5.a cause of severe pain or anguish. -
OR, while I'm still leaning towards what they did was ok, I have to disagree. Water boarding is indeed torture, even based on your given definition. The mental anguish of feeling as if you're drowning over and over, and the dread of knowing it's going to happen again. Not to mention the stinging and burning of raw throat and nose; the constant stripping of mucus from those areas. This constitutes extreme anguish of body or mind; agony.
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