Your efforts are futile DHK. None of the above are applicable to your failed thesis which was :"the great majority of Presbyterians are swallowed up in their hyper-Calvinistic beliefs." You have't proven anything related to that false claim of yours.
You don't have to be concerned about hyper-Calvinism rising in the ranks of Presbyterianism. However, its counterpart --Arminianism/semi-Pelagianism is increasing there almost as much as in the larger Evangelical world.
As S/N needs to heed his own advice, you must do the same.
DHK: "When a person makes a statement without evidence,then he should provide the evidence when asked for;not simply repeat his erroneous statement over and over." 9/28/11
DHK :"If you are going to make unfounded statements then you have to back them up. Please provide documentation." 2/15/12
DHK :"Don't post things here without evidence." 2/16/12
Coming back to the Baptist:Help!
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by ReformedChris88, Aug 26, 2013.
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If you denied the resurrection, then like the atheist, all the evidence in the world that I presented that would demonstrate the veracity of the resurrection you would not accept. You sit in your chair in unbelief no matter what in denial of the truth.
Once you start trying to bully people around it is you that will be finding the exit to the back door. Your statement is totally unwarranted.
None is so blind as those who cannot see. Perhaps you cannot see what hyper Calvinism is because you are caught up in this movement, and are, by definition one yourself.
Examine yourself:
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Now you can be diversionary all you want, but that was the point I have been making all along. None of the links --and I probably read them more carefully than you -- have anything to do with your premise. Nothing.
This is someting Phil Johnson said in the link you gave:"Both Arminians and hyper-Calvinists will protest that it is illogical or unjust to teach that God demands what sin renders us incapable of doing...Man's own inability is something he is guilty for, and that inability cannot therefore be seen as something that relieves the sinner of responsibility." Johnson goes on to say that both Arminianism and hyper-calvinism spring from the same polluted source.
"The denial that faith is the sinner's duty illustrates how hyper-Caviniism and Arminianism arise from the same false notion. The one fallacy that lies at the hert of both Arminianism and hyper-Calvinis is the erroneous assumption that human inability nullifies responsibility."
In Justin Taylor's piece he relates that "some critics of Calvinism persist in referring to the doctrines of grace as 'hyper-Calvinism.' Hyper-Calvinism undermines the gospel and should be opposed. But it should also not be used as a label against those who explicitly repudiatde it."
And DHK, I do repudiate it. And I forcefully reject your characterization of me as a ploy to detract from your lack of support for your original claim.
If you were to write a such a thesis and come up with your evasive tactics and irrelevancies it would not pass muster. -
I already told you about Smith's book and how the subject of Hyer-Calvinism doesn't even come up. I told you that I had read more than 30 reviews of his book and there was not one iota of info on the subject-at-hand. But of course you had no response.You put out links that have no links to your premise.
I like Iain Murray's book on Spurgeon vs. Hyper-Calvinism. I know there have to be threads where I have commented on it years ago. I know Mr. Murray (as I do Phil Johnson by the way)but his book did not deal with present-day Presbyterianism and its relationship to hyper-Calvinism. And back in the 19th century you would not be able to find any hyper-Calvinistic Presbyterians --certainly CHS doesn't reference any. So much for that weak link.
Let's get down to numbers. The stats vary according to sources,so I went to various sites for these denominations.
The PSUSA is by far, the largest Presbyterian denomination in America --as well as being the most liberal (some select congregations are more conservative, but still moderate). The denomination has 1,849,496 members.
PCA : 364,019
EPC : 160,000
CPC : 87,000
ARPC : 39,687
ARP :35,472
OPC : 30,000
The CPC is overwhelmingly Arminian so no hyper-calvinism is possible there. If you add up these last six denominations you will have a total of 716,178 people. So even more than doubling the numbers for these six denominations the PSUSA reigns supreme for sheer numerical strength.
Are you willing to say that that the PSUSA,as liberal as they are, are actually hyper-Calvinistic -"a great majority"? Of course not. They are not even Calvinistic much less hyper-Calvinistic.
Do you have any evidence to support that the minority --the other six, are hyper-Calvinistic? Of course not. Their websites gave no such indication. Now I realize that a h-C is not going to be forthright and say they are -- but these groups have nothing at all to do with hyper-Calvinism. Face the facts DHK. -
#1 Being a Calvinistic Baptist and a Reformed Baptist are not one in the same. Reformed Baptist churches trace their history back to the English Particular Baptists of the 17th Century. While the Doctrines of Grace played a prominent role in Particular Baptist theology, there was also strong Puritan influence that revolved around confessional theology. American Reformed Baptist churches share similar doctrinal distinctives: Calvinistic soteriology, confessionalism, and a Reformed view of worship.
#2 Non-Reformed Calvinistic Baptists agree with their Reformed brethren on soteriology, but they differ on their views of worship and even ecclesiology. Many SBC churches that are Calvinistic are not Reformed. They are not confessional and have a more open view of contextualization in worship.
Some good websites to visit that can better explain Reformed Baptist distinctives are:
Confessing Baptist
Association of Reformed Baptist Churches of America
What is a Reformed Baptist Church?
Spurgeon Blog -
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
jerome
6 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. -
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdxJE18q4Z0 -
Thank you Harold for pointing out the sad irony of someone using that Scripture to make a false insinuation against me.
Anyway, here is a sixth link we can add:
Challies.com Landscape of Reformed Baptists
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What exactly is your point? -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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