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Featured Coming to Jesus

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Iconoclast, Sep 8, 2020.

  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    In John 6 :37-44 jesus declared that all The Father gives to Him shall come to Him.

    What does it mean to come to Jesus?
    Do we literally come to Him?
    Do we come in and through faith metaphorically?
    Do we come at regeneration having been drawn effectually by The Spirit?
     
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  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    In isa.11:10 it speaks of gentiles seeking him.

    In isa60:3-4 speak of the gentiles coming to him.
    Is this a physical coming to Him?
     
  3. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    According to @Van, humans can thwart others from coming to Him.
     
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  4. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    When the scriptures speak of all nations coming to worship Him,would you say that is right now as they come in prayer to the Heavenly Jerusalem?
     
  5. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    As a non-Dispensationalist, I say that is the case.
     
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  6. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    K
    Nope.

    The “universal church” (invisible church) does certainly come to Christ, but the current Jerusalem is not friendly to the gospel. It tolerates tourists, but absolutely no mission work in which believers openly carry the gospel to the lost.

    The “heavenly Jerusalem” is that which is yet to be revealed when the earth and heavens vanish followed by the final judgement.

    1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. 2And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, 4and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”

    5And He who sits on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” And He said, “Write, for these words are faithful and true.” 6Then He said to me, “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. 7“He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.8“But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

    9Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and spoke with me, saying, “Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.”

    10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,11having the glory of God. Her brilliance was like a very costly stone, as a stone of crystal-clear jasper. 12It had a great and high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels; and names were written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel. 13There were three gates on the east and three gates on the north and three gates on the south and three gates on the west.14And the wall of the city had twelve foundation stones, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

    15The one who spoke with me had a gold measuring rod to measure the city, and its gates and its wall. 16The city is laid out as a square, and its length is as great as the width; and he measured the city with the rod, fifteen hundred miles; its length and width and height are equal. 17And he measured its wall, seventy-two yards, according to human measurements, which are also angelic measurements. 18The material of the wall was jasper; and the city was pure gold, like clear glass. 19The foundation stones of the city wall were adorned with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation stone was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, chalcedony; the fourth, emerald; 20the fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, topaz; the tenth, chrysoprase; the eleventh, jacinth; the twelfth, amethyst. 21And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; each one of the gates was a single pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass.

    22I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it. 25In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed; 26and they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it; 27and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
    This is that which all nations come to.
     
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  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    In Hebrews we are encouraged to draw near to God.

    In Hebrews 12:22-29 we are told the location we are coming to as we pray.
    It is the Heavenly Zion and Jerusalem.

    Do you think it is possible that when Jesus came to the early Jerusalem and accomplished redemption, that as He ascended Dan7. He has assumed His kKingly reign and rule from the Heavenly Jerusalem?
     
  8. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Did you not read that every place in which the demonic have been is to be destroyed? That He makes all things new, that the nations are drawn yo that place?
     
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  9. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    yes...I think it is happening slowly but steadily.
    Jesus is ruling in the midst of His enemies.
     
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  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

    28 For the kingdom is the Lord's: and he is the governor among the nations.

    29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.

    30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

    31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.
     
  11. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    I am beginning to Think coming to Jesus for salvation from our sins, also includes coming into The growing Kingdom;

    This global salvation was to be effected through the Servant’s work of vicarious atonement (53:1-12) and, as a result of it, Zion (symbolizing Yahweh’s covenant wife who bears children for him – ref. 50:1; also Hosea 2:1-23) would be restored from her desolation. In her restoration she would then gather in the innumerable “children” of the covenant Lord secured for Him by the atoning work of His Servant (54:1-17).

    The focal point of the Servant’s work in Isaiah’s prophecy is the recovery to God of estranged mankind. But, in keeping with the fact that the curse extended to the whole creation, Isaiah showed that work of recovery to reach beyond man to embrace the entire created order.
    Through His Servant, Yahweh would vanquish the curse and usher in a new creation (cf. 65:1-25, 66:5-24 with 11:1-10).

    Kit Culver notes...
     
  12. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    The promise of the kingdom was the promise of Immanuel – “God with us” – and this theme is most prevalent in Isaiah’s prophecy (cf. 7:1-12:6, 19:18-25, 25:1-27:13, 32:1-20, 40:1-11, 42:1-9, 49:1-13, 59:1-20, etc.).

    In particular, Isaiah associated the eschatological coming of Yahweh with the coming of His Servant.

    Importantly, this Servant is presented in unique terms as both the fulfillment of Israel (Isaiah 49:1ff) and the presence of Yahweh (cf. Isaiah 40:1-11 with 42:1-16; also Zechariah 2:10-11). In this way the text indirectly indicates that, in this one individual, there is some sort of conjoining of the covenant Father and son; both parties to the covenant are represented in him.
    While Christians commonly recognize that the Isaianic “Servant of the Lord” represents Yahweh Himself in His coming to inaugurate His kingdom, it is far less common for them to find in this individual the fulfillment of Israel, Yahweh’s covenant son. The result is that they miss a crucial aspect of Christ’s identity and role as the God-Man.
     
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Once again a Calvinist denies Matthew 23:13, indicating Van and not Jesus made the statement.

    None of the posting Calvinists will address any of the truths of scripture showing Calvinism is bogus. But they will post falsehood after falsehood to obscure that truth.
    Matthew 23:13
    “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

    The Calvinist claims these are my words in Red, not the words of Jesus. On and on, falsehood after falsehood.

    According to this verse, those who are entering had to have some spiritual ability, teaching therefore total spiritual inability, the T of the TULIP is false doctrine.
    And according to this verse, those who are entering were not being compelled by Irresistible Grace, because they did not go in. Thus more proof the I of the TULIP is false doctrine.
    So they try to change the subject to my opinion. Go figure
     
  14. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Who listens to Van!?!
     
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Once again a Calvinist denies Matthew 23:13, indicating Van and not Jesus made the statement.

    None of the posting Calvinists will address any of the truths of scripture showing Calvinism is bogus. But they will post falsehood after falsehood to obscure that truth.
    Matthew 23:13
    “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

    The Calvinist claims these are my words in Red, not the words of Jesus. On and on, falsehood after falsehood.

    According to this verse, those who are entering had to have some spiritual ability, teaching therefore total spiritual inability, the T of the TULIP is false doctrine.
    And according to this verse, those who are entering were not being compelled by Irresistible Grace, because they did not go in. Thus more proof the I of the TULIP is false doctrine.
    So they try to change the subject to my opinion. Go figure
     
  16. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    It does not look like mt.23 has anything to do with the OP.
     
  17. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Has this process began at the incarnation and continues on right into the eternal state?
     
  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Two very different actions are conflated with the phrase "come to Jesus." One action, where an individual responds to the call and draw of the gospel, and puts their faith in God and His Redeemer. The other action is where God alone transfers an individual from the realm of darkness into the kingdom of His Beloved Son.

    John 6:37 refers to the action of God giving an individual to Christ because they end up inside of Christ, because Christ promises to not cast them out. Calvinists of course cannot discern this obvious truth, so they bang on and on.
     
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another Calvinist denies those entering the kingdom have anything to do with coming to Jesus. I kid you not.
     
  20. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    I don’t think so. There is a specific end to salvation being available.

    Remember the prophecy John could not reveal?

    Within that area is John’s record of the termination of the gospel.

    I’ll have to get the specific reference verse, later, but perhaps between now and then someone else will provide it.

    Earlier there is a call of “how long” and the answer goes something like until the last person to be redeemed is redeemed.

    There is a specific end to redemption.
     
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