Congruent Election though similar to conditional election, has a nuanced difference. This view holds that since God dwells in eternity, he sees all things eternally now. He sees all peoples and events, past present and future, as if it was all right now. In this sense, God sees all believers all at the same time, and he sovereignly chooses them from his eternal-now-perspective. But, because men dwell in time, and make free choices, they also choose to believe in Christ from their perspective. In this way, from one side, God unconditionally chooses us in eternity, but we also conditionally choose God in time — thus, election is congruent. Norman Geisler’s Chosen But Free and Richard Land President of SES espouses this view.
Congruent Election
Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Truth Seeker, May 15, 2016.
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Truth Seeker MemberSite Supporter
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It is an interesting theory, but it still doesn't change the fact that logically, God decides first and that man decides what he decides only because God already decided what he'd decide.
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InTheLight Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
It also makes God the author of evil. After all, if God already decided what Eve would decide, then God caused Eve to eat of the forbidden fruit. -
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Bring back some of those buttons. :)
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But I'd challenge you to show how congruent election resolves this problem. -
SovereignGrace Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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InTheLight Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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InTheLight Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
God caused Eve to eat the fruit.
Eating the fruit would give A&E the knowledge of good and evil.
A&E are now fallen humans.
But then you say:
God didn't create evil.
You're not making sense. -
SovereignGrace Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Also, look at this...
In Isaiah, Isaiah prophecies that Ariel will be destroyed by writing...
Woe to you, Ariel, Ariel, the city where David settled! Add year to year and let your cycle of festivals go on. Yet I will besiege Ariel; she will mourn and lament, she will be to me like an altar hearth. I will encamp against you on all sides; I will encircle you with towers and set up my siege works against you. Brought low, you will speak from the ground; your speech will mumble out of the dust. Your voice will come ghostlike from the earth; out of the dust your speech will whisper. But your many enemies will become like fine dust, the ruthless hordes like blown chaff. Suddenly, in an instant, the Lord Almighty will come with thunder and earthquake and great noise, with windstorm and tempest and flames of a devouring fire. Then the hordes of all the nations that fight against Ariel, that attack her and her fortress and besiege her, will be as it is with a dream, with a vision in the night— as when a hungry person dreams of eating, but awakens hungry still; as when a thirsty person dreams of drinking, but awakens faint and thirsty still. So will it be with the hordes of all the nations that fight against Mount Zion.[/I][Isaiah 29:1-8]
Here you can see where God has brought judgment upon Ariel and He will orchestrate it so that it will be besieged. Yet, He will then turn and destroy them that attacked Ariel.
God sent a judgment upon His ppl and used the reprobates to accomplish His will. Yet, they who attacked Ariel are still responsible for their wicked deeds.
It is like with Adolph Hitler. He was a judgment sent upon the Jews as they were rejecting their Mesiah, Christ. Yet, at the same time, Hitler will be held responsible for the wicked deeds he did. -
tyndale1946 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. -
SovereignGrace Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
He put Pharaoh in his place just to demonstrate His power through him. He had Ariel besieged by the reprobates and then throttled the reprobates for doing what they freely chose to do. -
2:15
1 Come ye sinners, poor and needy,
Weak and wounded, sick and sore;
Jesus ready stands to save you,
Full of pity, love, and pow'r.
I will arise and go to Jesus,
He will embrace me in His arms;
In the arms of my dear Savior,
O there are ten thousand charms.
2 Come, ye thirsty, come and welcome,
God's free bounty glorify;
True belief and true repentance,
Ev'ry grace that brings you nigh.
I will arise and go to Jesus,
He will embrace me in His arms;
In the arms of my dear Savior,
O there are ten thousand charms.
3 Come ye weary, heavy laden,
Lost and ruined by the fall;
If you tarry till you're better,
You will never come at all.
I will arise and go to Jesus,
He will embrace me in His arms;
In the arms of my dear Savior,
O there are ten thousand charms. -
St. Augustine championed this explanation:
There is only one way. It is not something. It is, literally, nothing. It is the absence of something.
The real question, then, is did God will it to come to pass. Did God will that there should be a hole in goodness in this world?
The answer is yes.
God always intended for evil to "exist" (by "exist" we mean, in the same sense that darkness "exists'- as a hole in something, as a nothing).
In this sense, God did create "evil" (though not in reality). I told you that this was complex.
Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
Now, that does not mean that God loves evil. He hates it. But he can hate a thing and will for it to exist because he intends for that thing to bring about something that is ultimately good. It may be immediately evil, but it will bring about ultimate good.
Jonathan Edwards put it this way:
I cannot improve upon the words of Jonathan Edwards:
Because evil "exists," grace exists.
Because evil "exists," we can better see what it means to love (for without evil, sacrifice cannot be [greater love has no man than this than a man lay down his life for his friends]).
In conclusion, champions of Christian orthodoxy, like the Westminster divines, have it right when they say that God did not, technically, create evil. It truly is heresy to say that if by it is meant a certain thing. But God DID will that evil be- not because he loves evil, he hates it. But because he uses it to reveal more of himself to us. He is even more glorious in our eyes as we behold his attributes against the temporary backdrop of evil. -
InTheLight Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
"It's a mystery".
God created Adam and Eve.
God created the rule, "thou shall not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil."
God created the consequence for breaking the rule, "you shall surely die."
You say: God caused Adam and Eve to eat of the fruit.
Then you say: God didn't create evil.
If someone creates all the conditions for something to happen and then causes it to happen, they own it!
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I'll only say that heaven will be filled with the REDEEMED. That is one of the main things heaven's occupants will praise God for forevermore.
There is no redemption if there never was any sin. -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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tyndale1946 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
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