Creating Your Own God

What an absurd statement, Paul was speaking to siblings in Christ. That for the umpteenth time is not at issue. He spoke to them as to men of flesh, unregenerate. Can you get your great mind around that? Of course not... You and your cohorts will continue to pretend you cannot grasp the obvious. What a joke...

 

As I said, you have said the same old tired phrase time and again in multiple forums.

We say you are wrong and explain why in painstaking detail. But you are bull-headed and refuse to engage.

 

Everything AustinC said in his quote was accurate and true. Yet you call truth an absurdity. That's par for the course.

 

From what authority is this translation?

If it is your own work, then others have already stated it as faulty.

If it not your own work, then state specifically from what is the source.

 

Who ask the question concerning were Calvinism came from? I must have missed that post.

Who (other than you) acknowledged “men of the flesh” referred to any unregenerate as it concerns the passage in Corinthians?

 

Do you realize that since they were not unregenerate, your point is moot? The verse, therefore, is not making any point for you. Can you see and admit this?

 

Thank you! Van is attempting to make a correlation where there is none.

 

Sometimes people can be as confused and confusing as a termite in an old fashioned wood yo-yo.

I am assuming that the “interpretation” Van is using is from his own attempt, and that is why he is presenting a mistaken presentation.

 

" For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." ( 1 Corinthians 1:18 ).

I'm sorry, Van,
but I see that God's word itself tells us right here, in the above, that the preaching of the cross ( the Gospel ) is foolishness to the lost ( them that perish ).

They cannot be reached with some spiritual things, no matter how "fundamental" they may be...
As even the preaching of Jesus Christ on the cross to atone for sins, is foolishness to them.
That's where the Gospel very nearly starts, and they cannot even get past that.

My own dear grandfather rejected it when it was presented to him on several occasions, and I later came to understand why...
Because to him, it was foolishness...and he ( in unspoken terms and probably to avoid offending me ) told me that it was.

Again, my friend, read what this states:

" Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ." ( 1 Corinthians 2:12-16 ).

 

Here's what I see when I look at the above:

12 We as believers have received the Spirit which is of God...
So that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things Paul and Sosthenes were speaking...not in words which man's wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Ghost teaches...comparing spiritual things ( things of God's Spirit ) with spiritual.

14 But the natural man does not receive, or welcome, the things of God...
For they are foolishness to him, neither can he ( which means it's impossible for him to ) know them.

Why?

Because they are spiritually ( by the Spirit, or because of the indwelling of the Spirit, see verse 12 for the reason that the Spirit is given to believers ) discerned.
Therefore, the "natural man" here is not born again and indwelt by God's Spirit...
They are not believers in Christ Jesus.

What they do with spiritual things like God's words is to reject them out-of-hand as foolishness, and not as what we, as His people, know them to be...
The wisdom and power of God.

 

With their whole heart?

" For the wicked boasteth of his heart’s desire, and blesseth the covetous, [whom] the Lord abhorreth.
4 The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek [after God]: God [is] not in all his thoughts." ( Psalms 10:3-4 ).

" The fool hath said in his heart, [There is] no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, [there is] none that doeth good.
2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, [and] seek God.
3 They are all gone aside, they are [all] together become filthy: [there is] none that doeth good, no, not one." ( Psalms 14:1-3 ).

Yes, it does.
The remedy for this heart problem is described in Acts of the Apostles 16:14 and in other places like John 3:3-5.

 

I have tried on multiple occasions, not just in this thread --that 1 Cor. 1:18 ties in with 1 Cor. 2:14. But Van just doesn't get it. Or, it could be that he just doesn't want to acknowledge it because it harms his agenda.

Those who regard the preaching of the cross as foolishness have no spiritual understanding because they are not indwelt by the Holy Spirit. They are perishing.

 

"Jeroboam's" tweaking" of worship for the Northern tribes is still a common practice among those who don't want to "go to Jerusalem" to worship. Humans tell themselves that they are fine if they create their own narrative of the Bible. When that narrative is challenged they have pet names and labels to categorize the challenger. This makes it nearly impossible to change their narrative no matter how many facts are provided.

 

One of the tactics of false teachers is to make claims not based on specific statements contextually considered, but on undefined statements. For example, say I claim God put invisible pink elephants in orbit around Mars. You say show me the evidence.

I say "all things are possible with God." Then I attack, by saying by your denial that God did not put them in orbit, you are diminishing the divine attributes of God, and you deny God is sovereign and does as He pleases.

Take, "No one seeks after God." Does this mean no one ever, at any time, while unregenerate seeks God? Nope. But if you offer a more limited meaning, based on context, then the false teaches say you are adding to scripture. Never mind they did, claiming their interpretation is what it says, and any other view adds to scripture.

What is a way of finding the intended scope of "open ended" statements, rather than claiming everything imaginable is intended?

Ask the question, What is the least that God could be stating. No one seeks God some of the time or at any time? Some of the time. The context of Romans 3 indicates the idea is when a person is sinning, they are not seeking God. Thus Paul uses the fact that we do not seek God all of the time to prove we are all under sin.

There are many examples of the use of the bogus ploy, such as God would not destroy people in Gehenna because God is love. Overshooting the bounds of open ended statements can lead us into false doctrine. A sound bible study practice is to be a minimalists, being careful not to add to scripture by expanding the scope beyond its intent

 

The issue with Romans 3:11 is does no one ever, at any time, seek God, as do the people of Matthew 23:13? The biblical answer is some people some of the time do seek God. Thus by adding the concept "no one ever seeks" false doctrine is invented.

 

Questions:
1) In order to read false doctrine into scripture, do you ignore other verses that conflict with your fictional doctrine? Yes
2) In order to defend false doctrine, do you change the subject to claimed bad behavior of the messengers of truth. Yes
3) Should we fear God because He can destroy both the body and soul in Gehenna? Yes
4) Are the people entering the kingdom in Matthew 23:13 seeking God at that time? Yes
5) Is expanding the scope and extent of open ended statements a way to pour false doctrine into scripture? Yes

Our best approach to avoid accepting false doctrine is to study scripture and accept doctrine consistent with all scripture. Ask what is the least God is saying when evaluating open ended statements. Does God can destroy both body and soul mean God does destroy body and soul, instantaneously when people are tossed into the lake of fire? Nope. Only that God could if He chose, but the verse does not say He chooses to take that action. We need to read scripture carefully, prayerfully and thoughtfully.

 

Matthew 23:13 says the people entering were prevented from entering. Calvinists say this "overruled" God's plan. I said nope as no plan of God can be thwarted. So once again, something is read into the text (God's plan was that those people could not be prevented) therefore God's plan would be overruled if they were prevented. Around in circles they go, always moving away from the fact those people demonstrated actual spiritual ability but were not being compelled by "irresistible grace."

By carefully studying a verse or passage, and asking "what is the least God is saying" we can discern the extent of open ended statements using the constraint of context.

Those that have bought into the distortion of scripture have too much invested to actually address the topic of needless expansion, so pay no attention to the endless "taint so and Van is bad for saying so" posts.

 

Does 1 Corinthians 3:1 indicate men of flesh (unregenerate) can understand the milk of the gospel? Absolutely
Does 1 Corinthians 2:14 indicate natural people (unregenerate) cannot understand any of the things of the Spirit of God? Nope
Does Romans 3:11 say no one ever seeks God while unregenerate? Nope
Does Matthew 23:13 indicate unregenerate people do at times seek God? Absolutely
Does 2 Thessalonians 2:13 say people are conditionally elected for salvation through faith in the truth? Absolutely
Does James 2:5 say God chooses those who love God? Absolutely
Does 1 Timothy 2:3-6 say God desires all people to be saved and Christ gave Himself as a ransom for all? Absolutely

If you study scripture carefully, you are less likely to be led astray by the inventions of people. File these efforts under how to avoid creating your own image of God...

 

That's the difference between you and me, Van.
I mostly answer "no" to the ones that you answer "yes" to in the above, and vice-versa.

For example, in James 2:5, does God choose those who love Him?

Of course...right after He changes their hearts in order that they will believe His words and love Him...because He first loved them.
He chooses the poor of this world, so that they will be rich in faith and will be heirs of the kingdom that He has prepared for them from the foundation of the world ( Matthew 25:34, 2 Timothy 1:9 ), and they will glorify Him for His mercy and grace, forever.

God's grace through the new birth; Without it, no one would seek Him.