Is God not allowed to grieve at that which He knows will be. Yes, what He knew was to be at the end from the beginning was pleasing to Him but that does not remove the heart of God from His creation during events within time. God is not without feeling, for though He is soveriegn, Holy and Just, He is also Loving, Merciful, Kind, Compassionate, full of Grace. God also decreed that Christ would die and take upon Himself our sin, thus becoming sin Himself and we know from scripture that it pleased God that this would be. Yet we find at His death, a great earthquake tore the land, Darkness came at noon day - all were signs of Gods grief concerning the death of His Son whom He knew was slain from the foundation of the World.
He did not repent after the manner of man do to anyone or thing, for He is God and is not submitted nor to be submitted to anyone or thing that He would repent thus and turn for their pleasure that He might obtain a right relationship with them.
I believe that God used a word that we could grasp and that our experiences could conceptualize, so as to get a glimpse of Gods love and anger toward His creation. In Gen we see God repented He made man and was to bring judgmentBut we also see in Exd that God repented of judgment He intened to bring:
It reveals God is moved, and not some distant uncaring God. For Both His Judgement and His mercy were due to His Love for His creation. He loved his creation and would not allow them to continue in a life of rebellion, but also He loved them that He would withhold His intended and Righteous Judgement that they may be spared.
Adam and Eve in the Garden is not the beginning of Gods decrees. They were known and set forth, which is what brought creation, time, and space into existence. Remember that All things were to Him because it was and was to be exactly as He knew - and it was good.
Maybe I'm not following you as you hoped. Try it in smaller pieces and lets see what we come up with :)
Agreed :wavey:
decrees that are absolutely unchangable
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Dewey Sturgell, Aug 15, 2007.
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Not everyone has faith ( 2 Thess.3:2 )
Allan , I had already discussed this verse earlier . You seem intent on making it say something which is the very reverse of the force of the verse . And your #10 post did not help your case a bit .
You had said there : " ...we do not find in scripture God 'giving' faith to anyone in the sense they never had it . Why -- because it is something already present within man to use."
Well , Allan , your contention is not only not found in Scripture -- Scripture itself testifies against your man-made philosophy .
Acts 18:28c ... to those who by grace had believed .
2 Cor. 4:6 For God ... made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ .
Phil. 1:29 For it has been granted to you ... to believe on him...
2 Peter 1:1 To those who ... received a faith as precious as ours .
Your view is purely philosophical , not biblical . God indeed gives ( or grants ) us faith . We did not have it before -- in any measure . Your view is similiar to those who insist that everyone has some good in them-- even a sliver . Of course we know from the Word of God that that is patent nonsense .
The Lord gives faith to us which we did not have before just as much as He gives repentance to us . Now I suppose you are going to say that everyone has a measure of repentance in them too ?!
Spurgeon said something to the effect that he was more willing to belive that the Lord gives everyone a measuse of grease than to think that He gives a measure of grace to everyone . -
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I think it is quite apparent that my verses demonstrated that God gives people something they never had . He gave them something from nothing -- much like the creation of the world .
And the Bible makes it very clear that the natural person can't accept the things that come from the Spirit of God . There is no glimmer of faith in humans . The Lord alone gives believing faith to the elect -- they do not have a speck of it themselves . That's very humanistic thinking on your part BTW . -
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Rippon and I have been going rounds for almost a year now and it got fairly bad.
So I asked if we could talk about it and be reconciled to one another. I appolgized for any previous things I may have stated that would have offended him, upset, whatever. I offered to have him PM me so we could talk. But he didn't want that.
The sad part about it is, that another person who wasn't even involved appologized for a simple misunderstanding about something I wrote. But Rippon will not.
You can read it here (it is only the last two pages but more specifically the last one:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=36954 -
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I just have never met a believer who will not seek to be reconciled to another who is genuinely seeking it. But there are always firsts, you just would hope this wouldn't be something named amoung the brethren.
Thank you though for seeking peace amoung troubles :) -
. ( Well me and my natural brother talked about this concept and came to the same conclusion, but thank you for that answer ) .
( So by your reply God goes through grief continually by our time?)
( So your imply that God cried because of his grief:)
(This concept that God repented or may still repent is all because he forsaw the wickednss of man and how some men dont give him the Glory that he created them for)
(Is not some of his children that are called the children of disobedience living in rebellion against him now in our time ,for if so is this causing him to repent or has he stopped his repenting.)
( If Adam and Eve are not the beggining of his decrees then where would you imply that the start, did not he and his concil decide to make man in thier image, which would have been the start of his plan .)
( Well i believe you have the write concept to my statements-questions:) may the Lord our God increase your wisdom ,amen.
Agreed :wavey:[/QUOTE]
ps Im not worried about any of the past replys of the other brothers for my debates are within our conversation, may peace and love fill your heart,amen. -
Allan , if "The issue has nothing to do with this thread" --- then why bring up an irrelevancy ? Your professed piety is galling .
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Another example is the Holy Spirit (who is God) is grieved when we act in sin as well. One is in the larger scheme of things (like mankind and the Nation of Israel) where we see God being grieved and the other is more personal in our day to day lives for the believer who is united in Christ unto God.
God did not cry out in anquish or disbelief. He was grieved.
The only place that specifies when and why God is grieved, is in the NT regarding God the Holy Spirit being grieved when a believers walks in sin.
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Now concerning the repentance of God I do agree that I myself am grieved in the spirit from time to time : and I do believe what you said that it griefs our Lord and Savior, but dont see that it makes him repent or maybe Im misunderstnding your statements, if so im sorry,thats not my intentions to twist things.
My pastor and I talk about the scriptures it seems like every time that we talk and he tells me along with others that im looking for things that either have no answer at all or that im going to far with a scripiture after ive been revealed of its meaning, I think that because God has revealed so much to his children that the hunger ones seem to be harder to fill,
So far its all good; and I realize that much study is weariness to the flesh and also that were there is much known there is much required, maybe really deep in myself I feel that Im required to get more than I should out of the Bible: for its passages are deep wells that need to be purged out for knowledge.
This is some of my concepts of reading the scriptures. Not that in my mind im looking to far into things but just want all the angles that I can get out of them for they interest my so much sometime that I cant sleep trying to see all the possiblities that the scriptures are regarding.
With these statments: let me ask you what you think of Matthew 12:43- 12:44-12:45, these scriptures gave me a big loop of not being to understand them for a while ,Then out of Gods Grace I believe that he gave be the answer after years of thinking on them , althouth you may not have had the same trial over them but like the Preacher says in ECC, theres a purpose and a reason for all things under the sun,
Now if you get a mind to write me on these I will give you what I believe about them which has to do With Christ and Isreal. may the Lord bless you my friend,amen. -
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When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man,he walketh through dry places,seeking rest, and findeth none
Matthew 12:44
Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out;and when he is come,he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished,
Matthew 12:45
Then goeth he,and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first . Even so shall it be unto this wicked generation.
It seems to me that as Christ is talking to the scribes and pharisees in these passage he telling them that the people of Isreal need to be purge and to be reconciled of thier sin by his death, And as he has purged the promised people , of the old law and because of his obedience towards his Father in Heaven above:
There is still going to be unbelievers of this group of people which will not believe in Christ and fall under the wicked one and his advocates : which as this parable says they will be worse after his conviction has come to a finish, which is to be Christ dieing on the cross because of thier wicked and fowl ways,
And that because thier unbelief has takin them over it gave the devil the lead way to return for we know that the devil was always there ,(it was his home)
Now this is what I have seen in these passages, maybe you differ ,so please give me what you thing , May the Lord always bless you,amen. -
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