1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Defending Biblical Dispensational Teaching. What Are Your Questions

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by JD731, Aug 1, 2021.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. JD731

    JD731 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2020
    Messages:
    560
    Likes Received:
    101
    Faith:
    Baptist
    While I am waiting for my first question, let me prove the different ages from the scriptures.

    The scriptures explains that Jesus Christ came into the world in human form at the fullness of time. One must ask themselves if they believe that.The fullness of time was congruent with a harvest time, or the end of a growing season. I am not making this up. It is stated in the scriptures. His coming is also said to be at the end of the world.

    While his coming is said to be the ending of one thing, it is said to be the beginning of something else. Look at this.

    Ga 4:44 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

    When, according to this statement, is the fullness of time? Answer: When God sent his Son into the world.
    Asked another way; What did it mean when God sent Jesus Christ into the world? Answer; It meant it was the fullness of time.

    Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
    2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
    3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

    It is the end of the age, the fullness of time, but it is the beginning of the gospel of Christ. And why is it the beginning? Because John begins for the first time preaching Jesus Christ as the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world and this is the characteristic of the ages since.

    What do we draw from this so far? We know that the coming of Jesus Christ was not the end of all time but it was the fullness of time (singular). We know that because 2000 years have passed since Jesus came and John began preaching him and time is still going on.

    One must differentiate the plural and the singular nouns in the scriptures because they may mean different things. Like here, for instance.

    Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together (sounds like a harvest) in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:

    Oops, there is a dispensation of the fullness of times, according to scriptures. Notice it is the fullness of times (plural). This means more than one time is involved in this prophecy.

    Now, there is much more information that I could give here that strengthens what information I have given so far, but I am sure I will have opportunity to expand on this if anyone cares to respond.

    Every Baptist living today should believe and teach the dispensational structure of the plan of God in redemption because it is what the book teaches and Baptists claim they are the people of the book.

    If Jesus Christ came into the world while the law of Moses was still the operative principle of divine dealing with Israel, to whom he came, and Ga 4:4 says that is the truth, then one can logically say that is the time that is full and ready to change if he did not have scripture to say it. Fortunately we have scripture to say it.

    Ro 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

    Paul said this in 58 AD, twenty eight years after Jesus died and was buried and rose again.

    Jesus had spoken these words about the law as an operative principle of God's dealing with Israel.

    Mt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

    So now we know that the fullness of time and the end of the law means the same thing and both were accomplished by the sinless life of Christ and his subsequent death and resurrection. Obviously if one time ended and time is still continuing for 2000 more years, then it is logical to conclude that a new operative principle of divine dealing has taken place and we can say it is a new time with different godly principles of living.

    This is one of my favorite bible subjects and I am anxious to talk some about it.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2020
    Messages:
    1,104
    Likes Received:
    32
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Is it how God deals with people, or is it how people deal with God?

    Adam was banned from the Garden. At the Cross, Paradise was opened up for Adam's descendants. They are given back their permanent incorruptible bodies, not made of human hands.

    At the Second Coming this same body of Adam's descendants will gain back their spirit, and glorified. As sons of God they will deal with God at the same level Adam did before he disobeyed God and died.

    The Cross allowed mankind to deal directly with God in a physical body. The Second Coming will let mankind deal with God in spirit in the full image of God.

    When God called out Abraham, mankind could deal with God by faith, through the Holy Spirit.

    God allowed some humans before Abraham to deal at a higher level than what was opened up at each step in the process.
     
  3. JD731

    JD731 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2020
    Messages:
    560
    Likes Received:
    101
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Adam and the garden is indeed a good place to begin speaking of the dispensational structure of God in time. The instruction and fellowship of God with Adam in the garden would have continued forever without Adam knowing good and evil experimentally and the tree of life would have been available to his offspring forever had not sin entered in. This changed the way Adam and God had fellowship and it changed the place of it. It also changed the principle of divine dealing with Adam and his offspring. The garden was still there with the tree of life in it but Adam could not meet with God there any longer. Cherubs and a flaming sword guarded the entrance to keep them from the tree of life lest they eat of the fruit of it and live forever.

    So, the answer is both. God demonstrates his divine characteristics throughout history in his dispensational principles and at the end it is the same with man as at the beginning. Men fails but God does not. Read the last two chapters of the bible to see that all is restored as it was in the beginning.
     
  4. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    1,851
    Likes Received:
    355
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So we are saying that God is faithful to His covenants -/ CORRECT?
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  5. JD731

    JD731 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2020
    Messages:
    560
    Likes Received:
    101
    Faith:
    Baptist
    God is faithful to his word, yes. That is what I am saying. If he gives promises in covenants then he is faithful to his covenants.
     
  6. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    8,144
    Likes Received:
    844
    The biggest issue I have with dispensational theology is the view there is a separate future for Jews and Christians.

    Paul tells us in Ephesians that the two groups have been made into one “new man” by the work of Jesus on the cross.

    For there to be a separate future for Jews and Christians the work of Jesus on the cross must be undone, which is impossible.

    peace to you
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  7. JD731

    JD731 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2020
    Messages:
    560
    Likes Received:
    101
    Faith:
    Baptist

    I see two or three things from your comments that could be framed into questions for someone who teaches dispensational theology.

    1) How can Jews and gentiles both be in the body of Christ and remain separate and distinct outside the body of Christ?

    2) Does the one new man in Ephesians equate to a modified and restructured "old man?"

    Is that fair? If not, then rephrase them to be more in line with your thoughts.

    Now, a question for you. Why would a future for the nation of Israel and the nations of the gentiles separate and apart from the church undo the work of Jesus on the cross?
     
    #7 JD731, Aug 2, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2021
  8. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    1,851
    Likes Received:
    355
    Faith:
    Baptist
    so you are saying that according to scripture that there is only 1 people of God?

    good man!!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    1,851
    Likes Received:
    355
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And, you are saying that man has always and only been saved by faith?

    Again, biblical and sound
     
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    7,838
    Likes Received:
    653
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Well, I disagree with the error of making God's church only Israel. Saved Israel is the base for the churches. But everyone in the churches are not Israel.
     
  11. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    1,851
    Likes Received:
    355
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Jesus is the True Israel
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    7,838
    Likes Received:
    653
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Where is our Lord Jesus Christ called this?
     
  13. JD731

    JD731 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2020
    Messages:
    560
    Likes Received:
    101
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I would like to have someone who is opposed to the dispensational structure of theology address why they are opposed to it. What do you think about my op? Is there anything that you disagree with in my comments about the scriptures I quoted and the reasoning I concluded?

    I am a dispensationalist and I know why I am and can defend it from the scriptures, in context and systematically.

    On the principle of faith in what God said at a particular time and how believing him relates to justification and salvation, I offer this in the same context that Paul, the apostle to us gentiles, offered it. It was in three categories in Romans 4. You can check me out.

    1) Justification is by faith in what God said before the law of Moses was ever given - Abraham was the illustration
    2) Justification is by faith in what God said to Israel after the law of Moses was the operative principle of his dealing with that people - David was the illustration
    3) Justification by faith in what God says after the operative principle of Law was ended at the cross of Christ and his blood sacrifice was made efficacious to us gentiles, in addition to the Jews, by believing what God says to us. We are the illustration.

    All groups are justified by faith in what God said to them. A justified sinner cannot be charged with sin. However, salvation is having one's sins washed away and that is what Jesus Christ does for a sinner ."without the shedding of blood is no remission" the scriptures say.

    33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

    34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

    Rom 4:23 Now it was not written for his (Abraham's) sake alone, that it (righteousness) was imputed to him;
    24 But for us also, to whom it (righteousness) shall be imputed, if we believe on him (God the Father) that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

    I am showing these scriptures to give you the statements that drives my reasoning
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    51,880
    Likes Received:
    2,693
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Are there on one peop[le of God, or two peoples of God, Israel and the Church?

    was the church plan B, aftre thought in mind of God, or always his primary plan?

    Did Scofield teach in 1917 notes saved by Law under OT?
     
  15. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    7,838
    Likes Received:
    653
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Also the different words being used. (The two different words in Galatians 4:4 and Ephesians 1:10 being translated "time" and "times.")
     
  16. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    1,851
    Likes Received:
    355
    Faith:
    Baptist
    • Winner Winner x 1
  17. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    1,851
    Likes Received:
    355
    Faith:
    Baptist
    yes He did. Of course that edition has been revised at this point
     
  18. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    1,851
    Likes Received:
    355
    Faith:
    Baptist
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    51,880
    Likes Received:
    2,693
    Faith:
    Baptist
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    1,851
    Likes Received:
    355
    Faith:
    Baptist
    • Winner Winner x 1
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...